OL vs G5

I must be going crazy, completely insane. I seem to recall a thread on special stage where someone was saying how bad ass Justin is because his car was totally stock and how he wins OL . then someone then chimed in (could have sworn it was Grant) and said its not a stock motor but actually a some what built motor, and that Justin bought the car and the owner before it did some upgrades.

i even want to say one of those 2.5/2.2 hybrids . think you literally just slap 2.2 heads on a 2.5 and it bumps up the compression?

but maybe i'm just losing it cause its a friday?

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A1337STI
I must be going crazy, completely insane. I seem to recall a thread on special stage where someone was saying how bad ass Justin is because his car was totally stock and how he wins OL . then someone then chimed in (could have sworn it was Grant) and said its not a stock motor but actually a some what built motor, and that Justin bought the car and the owner before it did some upgrades.

i even want to say one of those 2.5/2.2 hybrids . think you literally just slap 2.2 heads on a 2.5 and it bumps up the compression?

but maybe i'm just losing it cause its a friday?

Pretty sure that was the car that Tyler Patik ran for a bit? If so, it was built to some degree, but I seem to remember there was some sort of issue with it not running correctly as his wife's forester was faster in a straight line or something. Maybe a tuning issue?

Dave

Justins car is pretty fast for a OL car, but it's nothing crazy; probably only slightly better than most cars racing in class. He can drive.


As far as winning overall, several OL cars have won regionals. Nationals will never happen because one its a regional only class and two who's going to beat higgins/block or whoever with a half mill car in the front of the field.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2014 12:56PM by czwalga.

Ya and i'm not trying to take away from his driving. there's plenty of room to be a Great driver and to have a good car. at the same time.

I recently saw a dyno sheet for an OL car that has 200 Wheel hp (sea level) not sure if that was one of those Generous dynos or a heart breaker but I'm rather impressed

what's the twistiest / lowest average speed national event?

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czwalga
Justins car is pretty fast for a OL car, but it's nothing crazy; probably only slightly better than most cars racing in class. He can drive.

As far as winning overall, several OL cars have won regionals. Nationals will never happen because one its a regional only class and two who's going to beat higgins/block or whoever with a half mill car in the front of the field.

That's where the G2 cars have also had overalls. The thing with looking at regionals is there's such a disparity of entries you can probably pick and choose event results to support whatever one's argument is. I'd imagine looking at overall results from a National event probably gets you the purest picture of how the cars stack up since those tend to draw larger fields. Bonus is that you can look at the overall results and you can make comparisons to known driver talent.

Dave

Put National and Regional RA results together with this:
http://www.daronhume.com/rally/combine.php5

STPR 2011 - would have been 6th overall in an OL car (23 minutes back from the winner)
http://www.daronhume.com/rally/combine.php5?rally_id=STPR&rally_id_override=&rally_year=2011&start_stage=&end_stage=&watch_cars=93&ignore_cars=&class_alias=&class_filter=&stage_skip=

NEFR 2011 - would have been 7th overall in an OL car (14 minutes back from the winner)
http://www.daronhume.com/rally/combine.php5?rally_id=NEFR&rally_id_override=&rally_year=2011&start_stage=&end_stage=&watch_cars=93&ignore_cars=&class_alias=&class_filter=&stage_skip=

Those are pretty fast events. What has Pritchard finished lately?

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john vanlandingham
Yeah ft/lbs x gearing x weight is the basic thing...
A Pipo-moteur current S2000 thing making 275 hp makes almost exactly 193 ft/lbs of torque..
They go like stink, sound super wicked.
Cost $35,000

A stock Xratty 2300 POS iron ol thing costs nothing, comes in the car for whatever you got the car for.
Make 195 ft/lbs..sounds harsh and thrashy...goes like stink

Not true.... if you think torque is torque no matter what, then ai Chihuahua!!! Unless maybe throttle response and powerband has no place in rally anymore.

But 35k is the norm for any built racing engine in europe. I think its "price fixing" from the builders monopoly. Millington charges the same for their Diamond engines, Neil Brown charges the same for their Honda engines.

Meanwhile I'm building my lil 2.5L Honda that will make around 300-310whp and 215wtq for less than a 10th of that!

And just because I know you like piccies John

It seems that HP and wieght seem to be the biggest factor in speed. Even over how many tires are driven. I would not have thought that when i first started rally.

Lots of guys love the side ways action of rear wheel drive. Im one of the guys that dont like that. I get more upset with my self over wanting traction then smiles. To me there is nothing like that pull of awd mid corner and out. Getting into the corner sucks compared to rwd in my exp. I guess thats because all the years of racing a traction limited over powered rear wheel drive car. So if you like entering a corner more the exiting then rwd is the way.

Class wise I think rules should be made based on build. weight limits should be applied to each car based on a few common things. driven wheels ,engine size, Turbo restricted or not,N/A,wheel base and track width. Every car runs for over all points. There should be types of classes for ease of making wieght rules. Over all should be based on drivers abuility.

Build what ever will get you out on stage. Let the rules place your car in what wieght catigory and run the roads as hard and fast as you can for over all victory.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

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Reamer
Lots of guys love the side ways action of rear wheel drive. Im one of the guys that dont like that. I get more upset with my self over wanting traction then smiles. To me there is nothing like that pull of awd mid corner and out. Getting into the corner sucks compared to rwd in my exp. I guess thats because all the years of racing a traction limited over powered rear wheel drive car. So if you like entering a corner more the exiting then rwd is the way.

It's entirely possible I'm not doing it right, but I'd say I'm much more enthusiastic tossing an AWD car into a corner than I am with RWD. If you over do it in AWD you've got some options, but in RWD the only answer is keep gas on and hope it sticks.

Possible that your perceived problem with RWD for stage rally is that your RWD experience was in "traction limited over powered" cars? For stage rally the general consensus is that much anything over 250whp is at the point of diminishing returns and plenty of G2 and G5 guys are running quick with half of that. What RWD stuff did you used to run? Circle track stuff, right?

Dave

Yes circle track stuff. 9" treaded tire 2400 lbs 640 hp. My old modified acctually won the Empire hill climb last weekend. The guy who bought the car has been running oval but this hill climb was close to home so he ran it. You have way more rally expierance then i do so im sure your correct. I guess i was thinking more of the fun factor then wreck pucker factor.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

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Reamer
Yes circle track stuff. 9" treaded tire 2400 lbs 640 hp. My old modified acctually won the Empire hill climb last weekend. The guy who bought the car has been running oval but this hill climb was close to home so he ran it. You have way more rally expierance then i do so im sure your correct. I guess i was thinking more of the fun factor then wreck pucker factor.

Holy crap, that'd be one hell of a beast to run in the woods! We've got a few guys at our local hillclimbs with "champ cars" which are sorta like sprint cars without the aero I think. The school bus style steering wheel, shifter in front of your nuts, way more power than seems prudent, and nonstop wheel spin from the green flag thru the checker...but damn those guys are fun to watch!

I don't actually have much rally experience, 1 tarmac event in 2007, Ojibwe in 2013, and 100AW in 2014. Driving a hillclimb is hugely different than rally even though you can use the same car. Committing to notes and not knowing exactly what's around the bend has certainly had a negative effect on how hard I feel comfortable driving at rallies. Must. Get. More. Seat. Time. And. Push. Harder.

Dave

Committing to notes and not knowing exactly what's around the bend has certainly had a negative effect on how hard I feel comfortable driving at rallies. Must. Get. More. Seat. Time. And. Push. Harder.

Thats me and most of us here for sure. My percent of wheels down has not fared well in rally. I seem to be way faster on the silly super specials then stages.

My Modified oval track car was a blast to drive.Let alone in the woods. Wish I would of thought of it! Hereing the engine roar threw the woods is cool as heck. He posted some video on FB it was wet roads with zero traction. I would post it here never posted video before.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Pritchard bought the car with a Franken problem. He put a used 2.5 in it. Just changed oil supposedly.

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Grant Hughes

Dynos will save Rally!!!! Oops:/ my bad


I'm with Grant!!! RWD has always been a favorite of mine and
as far as open class vs whatever.... It seems to really come down to driver, a little luck and with experience and teamwork most likely you will hit a podium finish.

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NoCoast
Pritchard bought the car with a Franken problem. He put a used 2.5 in it. Just changed oil supposedly.

When Justin bought it, it had a newer 2.5block with old dohc heads with Webb cams. I think it made 150hp when it was tuned but it had this weird dead spot between 4-4500 rpm. Strangely did that with the original engine/re-clocked stock ecu it had when I drove it, and with the ^above engine with a standalone. I assume that's why justin ditched that setup.

Like Dave said above i originally thought the car did alright in gravel but we found out it was WAY slower than my stock forester from stoplight to stoplight one night after coming home from a hill climb. Chris originally mixed the shortest stock rods with the Piston of a shorter compression height leaving us NA on something like 8:1. That's why the new engine was built just before justin bought it.