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Notes from scratch.

Posted by BobOfTheFuture 
turoc
Ozgur Simsek
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 23, 2015 09:09AM
Quote
MConte05
Corner grades don't change with the surface. Just how you attack it. I wouldn't attack an L3 on glare ice like I would on dry gravel, however the corner itself would still be the same.

The notes from 2014 should be at least a good basic starting point.

Actually they do! It all depends on how the roads are plowed. This year the WMWR roads were wider so didn't make as much of a difference but last year we had to down grade bunch of the notes.

Using the summer notes and modifying them would have been the way to go or Jacob could have called me and you guys could have copied my notes. I think i ran this event the most - well at least recce smiling smiley



rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!
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BobOfTheFuture
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 23, 2015 12:28PM
Ozgur! Thanks for your help this weekend!


So, we ended up just going at it with a blank sheet. Jacob called them out, and I added details as needed. For the second pass we moved a bit quicker and they seemed to be mostly without surprises, other then the 1 or 2 times I wrote a corner number without a direction.


Unfortunately despite yours and our efforts we didn't get past the last pass of recce...



Enablers, All of you.
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alkun
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 23, 2015 05:58PM
you didn't roll on recce did you?
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BobOfTheFuture
Rob Russo
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 24, 2015 01:35AM
No sir. We were doing the last pass and somebody got stuck a few cars up, and bunched up the field. We stopped as normal, and when the road cleared we couldn't get it into gear anymore.

Turned out the clutch slave was leaking badly. Sure enough its a shared reservoir with the brakes so it wasn't a good idea to keep going, And the part wasn't available within any sort of reasonable distance.

Luckily, Registration was the next morning, So I think the driver got a refund.



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Ferdinand
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 24, 2015 07:37PM
It doesn't matter what system you use, so long as you use it consistently and both the driver and co-driver agree with the way each corner is described.

Sometimes during recce a driver will call a corner a R5 (for example) when you might think it's actually a R4. You might think the driver is always right, the codriver is always wrong, so just write it down as the driver sees it. But when it comes to that point during the rally and you're calling the notes at speed, you call it as written R5, but see what you actually think is really a R4, then you're going to hesitate thinking you might be lost in the notes or might have made a mistake. That's why it's important that you both agree on the system being used, and you both use it consistently.

The tape system on the steering wheel is just a handy way to help consistently rate corners. You could simply have just three positions marked to each side, easy, medium, tight left or right. Or you could divided it into any number of gradations that you prefer. But for sake of harmonizing with the Jemba style supplied notes provided in most American rallies it makes sense to use the 1-6 rating system, with 1 being the tightest and 6 being the straighest.

When you're just starting out, it's probably enough information to keep it very simple with only fast, medium, or tight corners. Too much info is going to overwhelm the driver (or codriver) if you're struggling to keep up, and then you'll stop listening to each other.

But, as you get more familiar with your note system, and start to drive faster, you'll realize that a 1-6 scale is not nearly enough, as some corners are slightly faster than a 4 but not yet as fast as a 5. Hence then need for a 4+ or a 5- to give an even finer gradation.

Here's a pretty good video explaining the principle.


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steevano61
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 27, 2015 02:37PM
Here's a couple sites to check out:
http://rallynotes.com/2008/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-rally-notes/
http://www.andrewbargery.com/codrive.htm

The most important thing to remember is that you write the notes with regard to how the driver perceives it. You might call a straight section 100 but the driver see it as 80, whats important is the drivers POV. On RECCE have the driver call the shots.

You mentioned the tape on the steering wheel, thats how I was taught by Craig Drew/David Higgins and it works very well. I would personally drop the + and - from corners for your/drivers first couple events because the reality is he/she will realistically be driving 80% by what they see since you haven't developed a trust/bond that only comes from seat time together.

A couple things to seriously note (or you'll be spending more time than you'd like with a sweep crew) is crests into corners (you will get light on the suspension from the crest and the car will not hook up like it normally would with the suspension loaded, you'll lose traction and have a date with a ditch) and turns that tighten (R5>4).

Absolutely make notations for downhills, newbies and downhills dont play well together!

Also note every instruction from the route book (they will be marked on the stage by a stake/arrow with the corresponding instruction number) in your notes! It is not a question of IF you will get off your notes (lost) at some point but WHEN and how many times you will during an event. Do not be afraid or hesitate to tell your driver "I'm Off on the Notes" immediately!!! As soon as you realize your off, start looking for the next instruction stake/marker and also find it in your notes. As soon as you see the stake/marker, you'll be back on place in your notes.

good luck
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hoche
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Re: Notes from scratch.
March 02, 2015 09:00PM
Quote
steevano61
Also note every instruction from the route book (they will be marked on the stage by a stake/arrow with the corresponding instruction number) in your notes!

Stakes/arrows are much less common now than they used to be. If the event has them, great, but don't rely on that.

If you're just hopping in with a driver that's already established and he/she asks you to drop the +'s and -'s, go with that. If you're working to develop the driver, or have other long-term plans to work as a team, don't drop them. It's better in the long run if you run your first few events slightly slower and steadily work to increase your driver's ability to process the information.

The rest is pretty OK advice.



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OjNK
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Re: Notes from scratch.
March 05, 2015 01:11PM
Quote
Ferdinand
Sometimes during recce a driver will call a corner a R5 (for example) when you might think it's actually a R4. You might think the driver is always right, the codriver is always wrong, so just write it down as the driver sees it. But when it comes to that point during the rally and you're calling the notes at speed, you call it as written R5, but see what you actually think is really a R4, then you're going to hesitate thinking you might be lost in the notes or might have made a mistake. That's why it's important that you both agree on the system being used, and you both use it consistently.

I backwards-learned this one my second season when I was still driving vs co-driving. I did an event where I was a little anxious after a previous minor off and I wanted to control my speeds on the stage so during recce I called to my co-driver (who was also quite new) most of the corners 1 grade harsher than I actually felt they were. The event was HORRIBLE. When it came to actually running the stages I didn't trust any of the notes and I pretty much ran the event blind. Don't do that. smiling smiley Establish a consistent language for each type of instruction and stick with it. If there's some factor to the corner (surface, camber, water, etc) call that rather than changing the corner. Thats my $.02 anyway.

Also I've found it really helpful now as I've switched to mostly co-driving to pepper instructions with 'landmarks'. 'Big Rock', 'Water outside' and marking most road intersection/junctions. I find these a lot more useful to get myself back on track when I'm off-notes than mileages since I never ever consistently remember to mark mileages down during recce. (I'd pay good money for a rally odo that had an option to beep every .5/1km to remind me to take those notes!)

Most of the comfort in taking notes comes with experience. Keep it simpler at first, and grow your detail/language as you get faster.



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