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Notes from scratch.

Posted by BobOfTheFuture 
Racinkid13
Max
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 18, 2015 02:02PM
Quote
Andrew_Frick

The tape and stuff on the steering wheel is mechanisms to help the driver call the right number the first time.


So thats what its for. I will have to do that on my personal rig just to get used to it. Some time i feel i may try my hand at navvie.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 18, 2015 03:23PM
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/62AbA1h6PY4"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>







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stgallagher
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 18, 2015 08:57PM
Driver's first event and at speed in the car?

You've never written notes before?

I'm guessing based on the weather the last couple of weeks there's going to be a Shit Load of snow.

Run the route book if there is one, if not follow the tracks. Stay on the road and finish.

Worry about notes if you run more than this event.



2WD...Less Traction More Action!
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blackboxrally
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 18, 2015 10:48PM
Just throwing another perspective out there: might be worth doing a run with another experienced team to see what you can learn. your notes from wwr will be very different from the STPR jemba notes due to the way they pave the road and the snowbanks. if your driver is used to numbers, I'd start with the basics, as above. if he isn't, just yell at him every time you think he's about to crash winking smiley
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ALS FTW
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 12:28AM
I don't really know anything about pacenotes, but I've started to think about them as I get ready to get involved in the sport. So, I don't have a lot to say on them specifically, but I did want to comment about one aspect.

Someone said earlier in the thread that words didn't need translating and that numbers were too abstract and didn't mean much. I think the opposite is true. Here are some examples:

When assembling something with reasonable percision would you want to be told to tighten a bolt 'good and tight' or to '100 ft/lbs torq.' (would you want head bolts tightened down, good and tight)

When I was in emergency last, they would regularly ask me to rate my pain on a scale of 1 to 10. In that case it didn't matter if my 10 was someone elses 6... it was just a reference to my discomfort.

I just spend some committee work time to develop a functional specification for a project. We used a grading processs where we ranked the importance of various functions on a scale of 1-10. It helped get rid of 'loaded' valuations and helped us average out the thoughts of the committee members.

I think we all know what 'turn it up to 11' means, 'play it loud' is much less clear.

a heading of 275deg is much more specific than 'west'

But, what all of those cases, except the ER one, have in common is that the 'grade' is defined and meaningful.

This makes me think the tape on the steering wheel has some value; It serves to give you consistent grading of corners.

I do agree with the other poster that people who throw out numbers, or even words for that matter, without understanding what they are supposed to mean are headed for more trouble than success.

TLDR: Numbers are just another language.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 01:46AM
Quote
ALS FTW
I don't really know anything about pacenotes,
(snip)

Someone said earlier in the thread that words didn't need translating and that numbers were too abstract and didn't mean much. I think the opposite is true. Here are some examples:snip


Jeesus.
Meaning in language is subtly negotiated between speaker and listener.
Brief introduction to numbering systems heard/encounter in last 15 years:

For some people the numbers indicate:
speed in ascending order...1 is slow and 6 is fast
speed in descending order...1 is fast and 6 is slow
what kind of turn it is...1 is I don't know and 6 is a barely perceptible deviation from straight
what kind of turn it is....6 is a "severe' turn and 1 is a mere nothing.
Angle of steering input

Thus there is no intrinsic meaning to "a 2l" or "a 4R" since it could be anything the 2 people in the car decide it means...just as they could choose any other random words like in the example suggested--and chosen to perfectly illustrate the problem with use of randomly chosen words or symbols..
.It is pretty obvious that a co-drive shouting "Pannonia L opens , into Pyrenees R and Vlandern L narrows and 400 Delft R" could work just fine....but is pointlessly complicating things.

All the examples in the responses were missing the point....

No point in reinventing the whole wheel..Bob speakka da Englisch pretty good. I know because I have been talking with him for several years thru finding a car, fixing junk he's no encountered...

He's a noob in this amateur sport so's the guy he'll be riding with.
We all are.

They will have to discuss and discover what works best...speed, road, ascending speed, descending corner and if making up a agreed upon "code" makes 'em feel better than using a few select words in phrases consistently to describe what the road will be doing in 1 to 1.5 seconds



John Vanlandingham
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Anders Green
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 07:06AM
You guys are all overthinking this.

Bottom line: this is a skill. You have to practice it to become adept. So, go try it and see what happens.

You sound like a bunch of 14 year olds all trying to explain to each other what it's like to have sex when everyone in the whole group is virgins. winking smiley

Anders



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MConte05
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 09:48AM
Quote
Anders Green
You sound like a bunch of 14 year olds all trying to explain to each other what it's like to have sex when everyone in the whole group is virgins. winking smiley

But we've watched enough videos to know right?!
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Aaron Luptak
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 09:54AM
Quote
MConte05
Quote
Anders Green
You sound like a bunch of 14 year olds all trying to explain to each other what it's like to have sex when everyone in the whole group is virgins. winking smiley

But we've watched enough videos to know right?!

My big brother said the people in those videos are just actors...



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Racinkid13
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 10:17AM
So what do you fellas think of this site? Dunno whose it is.

http://www.jdrally.com/pacenoting
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NoCoast
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 10:22AM
Who cares what you prefer or what works better.
Use a number system since that's what Jemba is and what 99% of the events you will likely run will be in.
Or try to be Irish and just scream at him to go faster the whole time and only really worry about notes on the gotcha corners.



Grant Hughes
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ALS FTW
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 11:16AM
It is clear enough any system used needs to make sense to the people using it.
If most events do offer these jambo pace notes, then it make sense to mimic their syntax and style. (assuming the jambo notes use the same style from event to event)

I can't speak to others, but I didn't miss your point at all; I just disagree with it. Again, I'm one of the virgins the other guy is thinking about, but 'the point' is about how we communicate, not about pace notes exclusively.

My point was simply that if you want repeatable, predictable results you are better off to use a defined and measurable grade. If I mark my steering wheel, even with no experience I can go out and write notes where a '3' corner is a '3' corner. It might not be your '3' and it might not be the same '3' as I did at the last event, but that's ok isn't it?
Particularly with no experience, how would I know what a medium left is or what a sweeping left is. How would I make those notes as consistant as possible?
(as much as you expect to see a gigantor number 5 in the middle of the road, I'd expect to see a man with a broom on a sweeping corner.)

Quote
john vanlandingham
They will have to discuss and discover what works best...speed, road, ascending speed, descending corner and if making up a agreed upon "code" makes 'em feel better than using a few select words in phrases consistently to describe what the road will be doing in 1 to 1.5 seconds
This is worth repeating.
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BobOfTheFuture
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 12:04PM
Quote
Anders Green
You guys are all overthinking this.

Bottom line: this is a skill. You have to practice it to become adept. So, go try it and see what happens.

You sound like a bunch of 14 year olds all trying to explain to each other what it's like to have sex when everyone in the whole group is virgins. winking smiley

Anders


Anders, Give it up. The real pros use Klingon don't they...

John, I'm shocked at how long it's been, I've never really thought about it.



Enablers, All of you.
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Jard
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 04:04PM
lol

Some good proper funny shit in here.

Find me in Wellsboro, I might actually need to hitch a ride for recce, but that's a different story. Taking the 2014 stage notes and making changes to them based on recce is my advice since this is your first event. That will be what you are going to get at 100% of other NASA/RA events on the east coast after you finish this.

The biggest thing is distances - what does 100 look like at recce speed vs. racing

When you write notes you aren't writing stage notes (Jemba are stage notes, they describe the road) you are writing pace notes (how should I drive the road). IMHO you'll be better off with stage notes here.

I should be getting to the Fairgrounds around 2pm tomorrow.

Jared
703-625-6534 (text is fine whenever)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2015 04:08PM by Jard.
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Clayto
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Re: Notes from scratch.
February 19, 2015 11:52PM
Lemme guess.. You're going in with Jacob?smiling smiley
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