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83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension

Posted by zack13277 
zack13277
Zack Rondeau
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83 Mazda RX7


83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 16, 2015 09:43PM
I'm building a rally car with my 83 rx7 and looking for either decent struts and shocks or coilovers for the front and rear. I don't want to swap the front subframe or anything like that. Any help would be great.

Thanks
-Zack



-Zack
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NGTD
Dave Cotie
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 16, 2015 09:50PM
Before you catch hell from the regulars - your profile needs to show your real name and location.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 02:08AM
Quote
zack13277
I'm building a rally car with my 83 rx7 and looking for either decent struts and shocks or coilovers for the front and rear. I don't want to swap the front subframe or anything like that. Any help would be great.

Thanks
-Zack

Zack you'd be crazy not to swap in 2nd gen front end...Its easy and solves steering, brakes and makes good front suspension so much easier to live with and service..rather than ancient weak ass shit and vague and weak recirculatibng ball 5 or 8 turns lock to lock steering...

That thing is short. When you got a short car, unless your up there with Hooha Kankuni and you dominated your whole region 35 years ago with dead KYBs, you'll have more fun with good steering and brakes


Have you seen Alex Staidle's build thread?

RX7 perv in his bones and he's done 2 "whole dang thing" 2nd Gen into first swaps..
EASY.
The just call me for the actual struts and shocks...



John Vanlandingham
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zack13277
Zack Rondeau
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83 Mazda RX7


Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 05:24AM
Alright, thanks. I'll read through his build after work tonight and see what it's all about. About how much is it for coilovers with the 2nd Gen subframe and probably rear end too. I just kind of want an idea.

-Zack



-Zack
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 09:43AM
Quote
zack13277
Alright, thanks. I'll read through his build after work tonight and see what it's all about. About how much is it for coilovers with the 2nd Gen subframe and probably rear end too. I just kind of want an idea.

-Zack

Strut in front and shocks in back is going to be around $2000 depending on some options like made for ordinary top mounts or if made for spherical bearing top mounts and including the top mounts..With top mounts there's another $225

In the back Alex didn't listen and went to a lotta work to get IRS 3rd Gen in lured by the easy availability of LSD diffs..

But in the end he went for simple 5 link back axle because a good 5 link is hard to beat for cost and weight and effectiveness... He used a Toyota 8" axle...because there are so many with OK ratios, and new gears IN THE NEEDED RATIOS are all over for under $200.



John Vanlandingham
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zack13277
Zack Rondeau
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83 Mazda RX7


Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 03:11PM
If I find a gsl-se, Toyota, or ford 8.8 rear end, would the shocks still bolt up? And they are just shocks in the rear, not coilovers right.

Thanks a lot I'll call you know when I'm ready to order.

-Zack



-Zack
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zack13277
Zack Rondeau
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83 Mazda RX7


Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 03:29PM
From what I read Alex cut out some of the body to put in the rear end. Is there any simpler way to get a bolt in rear end with the 5x114.3 built pattern that the front 2nd Gen subframe comes with. I'm pretty sure I can make a roll cage, but I don't know about cutting and welding in a totally different rear end.

One final question, could you make coilovers and shocks for the stock 1st Gen? I'm basically looking for a cheap car to get started.

Thanks
-Zack



-Zack



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2015 04:08PM by zack13277.
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Pete
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 04:36PM
2nd gen subframes also come with 4 lug pattern that is same as 13B RX-7 and also the same as 240SX and a whole lot of Mitsubishis.

The "OZ Rally" Lancer was a complete turd but they came with some nice 15x6 wheels that bolt right on to a 4 lug RX-7...



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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zack13277
Zack Rondeau
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Location: Plymouth, WI
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83 Mazda RX7


Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 05:13PM
Ah ok, thanks. I just read through the entire Alex rx7 build and it sounds like I might put in a 2nd Gen front subframe and then drill out the rear axles for the other bolt pattern, that seems like the best option.



-Zack
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 06:05PM
Holy shit do the 2nd gen subframe. The 1st gen spindles are either very flimsy POSes that bend from street use ('79-83 small bearing) or they are slightly less flimsy POSses that bend when you pound on them '84-85 big outer bearing). The 2nd gen has the '84-85 outer bearing but a much larger inner bearing and correspondingly the spindle snout is thicker at the root and for most of its length. Haven't bent one yet. Bent piles of the '84-85 style uprights. Never bothered with the early stuff except for street and track day use.

The fastest rack is a little slower than the power box (if you can FIND a power box), and the suspension geometry isn't as good as the 1st-gen front end's. But those are small tradeoffs in favor of lighter weight, stronger/better control arms, struts that can be removed/swapped without disassembling the whole damn front end (and the ears are 1" thick by 75mm center-center, IIRC. Same as Subaru but longer c-c distance), and room for a steering quickener if/when you want to install one.

I am somewhat less than sane, though. I want to take the subframe, section the middle down so that a Miata rack fits (Miata rack is a narrower FC rack), then widen the mounting ears out so it fits the chassis. That way I can make control arms that aren't stubby little T.Rex arms so the geometry doesn't go all over the damn place with suspension travel. But then I've been told that I overthink things sometimes.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 06:49PM
Quote
Pete
2nd gen subframes also come with 4 lug pattern that is same as 13B RX-7 and also the same as 240SX and a whole lot of Mitsubishis.

The "OZ Rally" Lancer was a complete turd but they came with some nice 15x6 wheels that bolt right on to a 4 lug RX-7...

Yep..The pattern is 4 on 4.5" which pervesely is now called the much easier to remember 114.3mm or some shit
Datsun, old Toyota, old Misterbitchy, some maz-dogs, Saab 99 and 900 up to 1987, some Honda--one or the other Accord or Civic is 4.5"

Plenty wheels..(once upon a time)



John Vanlandingham
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 06:57PM
Quote
Pete
Holy shit do the 2nd gen subframe. The 1st gen spindles are either very flimsy POSes that bend from street use ('79-83 small bearing) or they are slightly less flimsy POSses that bend when you pound on them '84-85 big outer bearing).

I am somewhat less than sane, though. I want to take the subframe, section the middle down so that a Miata rack fits (Miata rack is a narrower FC rack), then widen the mounting ears out so it fits the chassis. That way I can make control arms that aren't stubby little T.Rex arms so the geometry doesn't go all over the damn place with suspension travel. But then I've been told that I overthink things sometimes.

Or shear right off in rally use.. I've had 2 different guys shear off spindle in front of me. one just after I had reeled him in full one minute gap and i was passing and literally next to him...I's like JAYZUZ! Whadd i dooze? as he plows into the Scotch broom.. Somebody goyt a photo of the exact moment..

The modding the subfram iddn't crazy, why the puck not? We narrow a 200SX subframe to do a rack and better stuffs on a 510..Its steel, just asking to get narrowed.
Longer arms are a mitzvah!


Its getting OK travel in the rear and some longer links that is the thing that I'd be thinking of hard..
I KNOW how good a "Escort-ed out" RX7 goes cause i got to see Millen in his prime and the only thing NOT escort was shell, and engine and glass..
It was art...



John Vanlandingham
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mekilljoydammit
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 07:44PM
Pete, just throwing this out there because you've actually screwed with this, but what do you think about swapping ball joints in the 1st gen control arms to take 2nd gen spindles/struts/etc? I *think* I may have had a cleverish rack and pinion idea that as far as I can tell nobody has done before and should be fast as hell. To wit, the MGB steering rack has the inner pivots the same distance apart as the control arm pivots on the 1st gen 7, the ratio is fast as hell, and if you flip a front steer rack upside-down, it magically becomes a rear steer rack.

I know the 2nd gen subframe swap isn't that bad (I got partway through one) but just got to looking for a better mousetrap, in an "overthinking things" sorta way. Not for rally, just nasty street stuff.
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Alex Staidle
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Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 17, 2015 11:53PM
so yea.the 2nd gen subframe is hilariously easier than using anything that came from MG. Also, just don't use parts from Britain.

the front is essentially "figured out"

the issue is the rear. the stock rear axle is more or less crap. while the 84-85 big (relatively speaking) bearing seems tolerate rally, and you can nab 4.78s from a kia sportage front diff, the geometry is utter crap. You wind up with a nimble handing front lugging around disappointment. It just doesn't move well.

Also, unless you have GSLSE axles, you pigeon holed into getting GSLSE axles, or forking over money to an axle place like moser. Then you still have the crap geometry.

I elected to get a early 90s toyota 4runner axle (excellent width) and make a four link. The toyota axle can be lathed by someone with upper double digit IQ points, and turned into whatever pattern you need to match the front, then select from the variety of toyota 8" ring and pinions, and LSD options you wish. Its more working making the boxes, but all told, it results in a superior car. Otherwise, the ass end is pretty twitchy.



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zack13277
Zack Rondeau
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83 Mazda RX7


Re: 83 RX7 Stage Rally Car Suspension
March 18, 2015 04:32AM
I do have a83 gsl with limited slip, but I think I'll see how that works out for now and then if I hate it I'll look into other stuff.

Thanks

-Zack



-Zack
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