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Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough

Posted by john vanlandingham 
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Roderick Thomas
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 11:41AM
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fliz
Quote
NoCoast
If RWD was so awesome Ken Block would have had kept the Mustang RWD for his Gymhoonifakeagainbuffoon stuff.

RWD Escorts are awesome. This is probably not a cheap or run of the mill version either. But regardless, it's bad ass, even if it's just some random island rally somewhere. winking smiley

If RWD rally were cool, Ken would still have his Escort. It's pretty obvious that if a global competitor like Ken prefers AWD, then for small-time US locals, RWD is not what we need.
We need moar AWD. I say we ban RWD. You can't get results with it anyway because they are so inferior.
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 11:44AM
Quote
Brian Johnson


He does still have an Escort. It has just been reworked for other projects because RWD is inferior for rally and is hidden away at the shop for now.

Fixed so we don't have to read between the lines. drinking smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2015 11:45AM by fliz.
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 12:03PM
So since we are holding up Hayden's results as a sign that everyone should switch to RWD because it is so much betterer and stuff. I would like to point you to this quote from his website.

Quote

If you are looking to buy a club/starter car, I would recommend a 2WD car (RWD for fun, FWD for speed/future driver development).

Here is the rest of what he has to stay.

http://haydenpaddon.com/how-to-get-started-rallying/

I think Paul hit the nail on the head, Better driver on a course that reduced the AWD advantage.
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 12:23PM
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fliz
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NoCoast
If RWD was so awesome Ken Block would have had kept the Mustang RWD for his Gymhoonifakeagainbuffoon stuff.

RWD Escorts are awesome. This is probably not a cheap or run of the mill version either. But regardless, it's bad ass, even if it's just some random island rally somewhere. winking smiley

If RWD rally were cool, Ken would still have his Escort. It's pretty obvious that if a global competitor like Ken prefers AWD, then for small-time US locals, RWD is not what we need.

Your sarcasm-fu is strong, Glasshoppah



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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 01:16PM
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Andrew_Frick
So since we are holding up Hayden's results as a sign that everyone should switch to RWD because it is so much betterer and stuff. I would like to point you to this quote from his website.

Quote

If you are looking to buy a club/starter car, I would recommend a 2WD car (RWD for fun, FWD for speed/future driver development).

Here is the rest of what he has to stay.

http://haydenpaddon.com/how-to-get-started-rallying/

I think Paul hit the nail on the head, Better driver on a course that reduced the AWD advantage.

Now you are messing things up Frickersby !

Next thing you know, someone will point out that a built BDA motor from Wilcox runs over $40,000 USD without a starter, alternator, or exhaust manifold.

This is like the $500 BMW kinda wins WRC story except it is crappy old econobox actually wins WRC because RWD story.

Truth is, the Escort in question is surely pricier than all but maybe 3 or 4 open class cars in the US and is driven by one of the very best. No, your $10k volvo with JVABs will NOT be capable of the same thing....Ever...Even with Hayden driving it.



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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 01:32PM
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Josh Wimpey
Now you are messing things up Frickersby !

Next thing you know, someone will point out that a built BDA motor from Wilcox runs over $40,000 USD without a starter, alternator, or exhaust manifold.

This is like the $500 BMW kinda wins WRC story except it is crappy old econobox actually wins WRC because RWD story.

Truth is, the Escort in question is surely pricier than all but maybe 3 or 4 open class cars in the US and is driven by one of the very best. No, your $10k volvo with JVABs will NOT be capable of the same thing....Ever...Even with Hayden driving it.
Shit man, you didnt have to be so obvious. now you dun started it. I'm outta here.

PS: Not just the engine costs that much, the ZF 5spd with dogleg 1st is a cheap £30000... But thats just a simple Gr4 build ya know.
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 05:18PM
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john vanlandingham
Quote
NoCoast
If RWD was so awesome Ken Block would have had kept the Mustang RWD for his Gymhoonifakeagainbuffoon stuff.

RWD Escorts are awesome. This is probably not a cheap or run of the mill version either. But regardless, it's bad ass, even if it's just some random island rally somewhere. winking smiley

Just a normal Group 4 Appendix K Escort. Just like Latval and Hirvonen have, just like Vatanen and Mikkola and Waldegard, and Roger Clark and hundreds of others..

Well known recipe....and those guys are stuck with Appendix K...must be all period correct.
Just a normal group 4 Escort.... Pricetag for car like that 80K?
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 05:57PM
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bttmotorsport
Pricetag for car like that 80K?
$85,000 in engine and gearbox alone, if you want to believe the numbers being thrown around here.

What is getting obscured here is a great drive by a 'better' driver.

I think good driving, even in a pos car, will give relatively better results here.
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 06:09PM
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ALS FTW
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bttmotorsport
Pricetag for car like that 80K?
$85,000 in engine and gearbox alone, if you want to believe the numbers being thrown around here.

What is getting obscured here is a great drive by a 'better' driver. in a basically GOOD car

I think good driving, even in a pos car, will give relatively better results here.

Don't believe the figures, they are ridiculous...Double for the motor, several several times for the box..
Embarrassing.



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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 06:48PM
Prices thrown out are a little steep... Looks like $6k Euro for a new trans: http://www.eliteracingtransmissions.com/products/elite-zf-s5-18-3/

Definitely not cheap, but definitely not $30k.
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 13, 2015 08:36PM
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john vanlandingham
Don't believe the figures, they are ridiculous...Double for the motor, several several times for the box..
Embarrassing.
Embarrassing is that you sometimes hit the nail on the head, and other times are a complete joke just because of your hoarder mentality.

People that dont know always find a way to discredit. Like I said a ZF brand gearbox is about 30k pound steerling and the real ones that pop up get snatched quick. That one in the link is an Elite gearbox, its a reproduction/replacement. Quaife has made junk like that for 20 years. Its still not a ZF.

And John, you cant buy a built BDA to historic spec for less than that. Yes you can build some sorry mess in your garage, but then no one would buy it or receive it.

But this is independent of the fact that the driver is bigger factor here, and then the type of road allows for momentum to be maintained and it helpts to have the lightest car in the field.

Now the RWD vs FWD argument based on this drive is just pure ignorance.
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 14, 2015 09:04AM
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Robert Culbertson
Prices thrown out are a little steep... Looks like $6k Euro for a new trans: http://www.eliteracingtransmissions.com/products/elite-zf-s5-18-3/

Definitely not cheap, but definitely not $30k.

Quoted from the site:

The Products we make:

Elite ZF 5 Speed synchro – £5,995.00

Elite ZF 5 Speed Dog engagement – £4,995.00



rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 14, 2015 09:08AM
In those cars don´t think that too many use Elite transmissions.... And the cost of buiding an Mk2 gr4 includes a lot more than just the engine and trans.....
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 14, 2015 10:36AM
ken block sucks? is that what this thread is all about?



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Guess trubo 4wd $300K car is just barely enough
May 14, 2015 10:46AM
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reecers
ken block sucks? is that what this thread is all about?

No, the subject is that to have LOTS of fun AND good results that spending crazy money for turbo and 4wd is not the ONLY answer....That as Paddon just showed and what Brendon Reeves and will Orders also showed when they in their well done 2wd cars beat virually every private built turbo AWD cars, a well built 2wd car is both fun and---if a guy knows how to drive----good enough HERE for very high overall results....

It doesn't have to be a 1600 BDA for whatever they cost, doesn't have to be a ZF box for whatever they cost...since we don't have to build to FIA Appendix K----so it doesn't have to cost 80k..

Engine, box, final drive, diff and good balance...

Pretty simple
And no surprise that so far nobody gets it.



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