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One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.

Posted by john vanlandingham 
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 05, 2015 01:14PM
Skip the waste of money for schools preaching superficial dogmas.
Mediate on this photo instead:



And those of you who I've talked about "the inside line', you can study this and sit cross legged, arms relaxed, breath mindfully and repeat "ooooum"





John Vanlandingham
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tdrrally
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 05, 2015 01:34PM
Amen



I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!
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Chris Eyre
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 05, 2015 01:36PM
One from last year's Wales Rally GB - suspension travel on these things is a bit silly...







Maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the driver.

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Pete
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 05, 2015 07:41PM
Yah, if they wanted to slow the cars down, they'd limit suspension travel and not airflow.



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Pete
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 05, 2015 07:44PM
Different note: This was the January pic for the calendar that the local VW dealership gave us.

I've been cutting the pages off every month so it's always this pic I see:



See how much countersteer he has mid-corner? Notice that it's NONE. Car has four tires, all four tires are working, keep wheel turned in. On the power when the car is pointed down the new road and not before. Perfetto.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 07:48PM by Pete.
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ALS FTW
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 06, 2015 01:52PM
That's kind of like saying looking at porn pictures will teach you how to give a woman an orgasm.

I also suspect both Evans and Latvala have spend countless hours in schools and/or focused coaching in addition to the time behind the wheel at events.

No question, though, that the pix are captivating and inspiring.
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Fly-Half
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 06, 2015 03:02PM
Quote
ALS FTW
That's kind of like saying looking at porn pictures will teach you how to give a woman an orgasm.

I also suspect both Evans and Latvala have spend countless hours in schools and/or focused coaching in addition to the time behind the wheel at events.

No question, though, that the pix are captivating and inspiring.

No Don it is not at all like saying that...
Somebody saying they have played countless hours of rallyracing on their Xbox and its "realistic" and that they know all about LFB and car set up is and has been used as a comparison to watching lots of porn and being an expert..

And I would bet that neither have spent much time at all in "schools' or in any kind of systematic coaching...practicing from a very young age, sure, but thoughtful, structured, systematic practice, no.

Beginners need to see depictions of what they must aspire to and there's where a photograph beats a video: it freezes a moment of time and if its lucky shot it can be a "decisive moment".

Simple logic exercise and anybody who has done any sports knows this to be true: How can you do something with your body or to make a car or motorcycle without have a clear picture of what you should be doing? First you must have a picture, then you figure out how to do what is in the picture...

Have you done any sports yourself at anything other than the casual level?
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Snidewhips
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 06, 2015 06:41PM
i for one have played a meteric ton of competitive sports and without structured practice to develop an instinctual reaction regardless of physical state you are a sitting duck. i'll argue for simulation racing and the fact with evans pedigree and jml's pedigrees they've recieved extensive coaching and seat time obviously from a young age. visualization is a tactic that should be practiced after mastering a skill and moving on to others. foundation is the basis of any high level athlete.. wheres the argument here? i introduced my friend scott to rbr and i racing and the principles of neutral throttle threshhold braking ect. ect. hold true sim or seat time. basketball or basket weaving, technique and hand eye development are just that

i'm gonna go fap to these pics now



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2015 09:31PM by Snidewhips.
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ALS FTW
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 06, 2015 08:30PM
^^^
What this guy said.

I've been involved in a couple of competitive activities at national and international levels. There is absolutely no question that the people who do well subject themselves regularly to fundamentals drills and seek coaching and education on a regular basis... even those at the very top level.

For those at the 'pick-up game' level - like most in North American rally according to some - simply wanting to 'look like a pro' without actually building the skills might be enough.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 07, 2015 01:03AM
Quote
ALS FTW
^^^
What this guy said.

I've been involved in a couple of competitive activities at national and international levels. There is absolutely no question that the people who do well subject themselves regularly to fundamentals drills and seek coaching and education on a regular basis... even those at the very top level.

For those at the 'pick-up game' level - like most in North American rally according to some - simply wanting to 'look like a pro' without actually building the skills might be enough.

Right there in town with you is a real nice guy who when I asked him the same question answered what sport, what level, and we had a fascinated long talk, and more when he came to visit.

No vagueness from him, he spoke right up..Honest, straight talk..Refreshing, and confirming an old feeling of mine..It was like talking to an old friend.

Like everything else you have written, I am always confused as to what you say and why..
Why wouldn't you just say 'I did _______________ on a national level for a while and I did _____________________ on an international level in the seasons ___________, _________, and ________.?


No. always vagueness. Using words not to share and make a picture, but to withhold, to hide something. Odd.

The photos shows in one flash--a sudden thing the essence of what gravel rally is and how it differs from other car motorsports....the "decisive moment" hinted at somewhere above is a reference to the great photographer Henri Cartier-Bresson



John Vanlandingham
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ALS FTW
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 08, 2015 11:21AM
The sport I was involved in is irrelevant. The point was that in a couple of different disciplines I've seen that systematic training and personal coaching are what is needed to grow and improve.

Visualization, and knowing what 'good' looks like helps, but is far from all that is needed.

You say 'skip the schools and meditate on the picture.' I doubt anybody could get to the top level of any sport without schools and/or coaching.
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 08, 2015 12:22PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
And those of you who I've talked about "the inside line', you can study this and sit cross legged, arms relaxed, breath mindfully and repeat "ooooum"

John, Care to repeat what you've said about the inside line?


Don: I've read so much about you now. From your posts, shitting on the things John says. Why not make your own threads with interesting pictures and helpful advice? For sure only one picture can help so much, especially with others muddling the message, taking it off topic. We need more proven, positive information!

I mean, if you have all this experience from these other (Irrelevant? Hardly...) sports, enough to pipe up about it in just about every other recent thread, why not step up a bit?



Enablers, All of you.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2015 12:27PM by BobOfTheFuture.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 08, 2015 12:47PM
Quote
ALS FTW
The sport I was involved in is irrelevant. The point was that in a couple of different disciplines I've seen that systematic training and personal coaching are what is needed to grow and improve.

Visualization, and knowing what 'good' looks like helps, but is far from all that is needed.

You say 'skip the schools and meditate on the picture.' I doubt anybody could get to the top level of any sport without schools and/or coaching.

You're weird...

Whatever.. You know.

You know whatever it was you are ashamed to say and we must believe you fine. (once again you intentionally choose to hide and thwart attempts at finding some common ground to discussion by hiding what you did...Is it shame? or misplaced pride?
What is it that one guy in Calagary could say 'I did bobsledding and for a while I was on the Canadian national Team" and you haughtily decide it isn't relevant? Maybe.. But maybe you don't know how its relevant to this sport, since it SEEMS you have no idea what this sport entails/demands.)

But if you were actually interested in this sport, which i seriously doubt you actually are, then you would be a tad more circumspect, a bit more tentative in your opinions..

But no reaching you..

I will simply say you are wrong in your tossing together "schools" and/or coaching..
Of course people at higher level get "advice' in many informal ways, but the glaring fact that this sport lacks any systematic system of instruction even at rudimentary levels much less at higher levels is a subject know and established and subject in other places of some serious discussion...including --shocking as it may seem--me...where the author of a book in process has expressed repeatedly lots of thanks for insight and humor and "the perfect example" occasionally.....along with thanks for helping him with nuances of idiom in English...

The author is a journalist for decades covering all kinds of sports in his home country--Norway---and has ridden with and interviewed drivers from Walter Röhl to Seb Loeb and of course close and frequent contact with the gang of Norwegians who have been in the WRC top: Solberg, Solberg, Mikkelsen, Ostberg...
and the other Northern--(OK Finns) drivers..
HE says there is no systematic research on a organised level or systematic, disciplined instruction as he says "alone amongst any other elite sport" he has seen and covered for decades...He's out with teams on test days, on WRC events...I think I'll believe him....


And of course you are arguing one thing and I am referring to another...I am not saying "you schmucks there is nothing to be learned in any "school" setting anywhere...I have advised several people to go to Wales and actually learn something.. and several have and were thrilled and excited.

I am saying that the so called "schools' in USA are really for entertainment and for separating innocent newbs from $2500-3400 early on before they know better..In the words of several very experienced drivers/co-drivers here "I think its mainly a money-grab"

And if you looked at the whole structure, knew who is who and what they try to pound into the "students' heads, its is superficial in the extreme....and I am going to bet that I have talked in depth with oh maybe 100 times more people who have gone to the US "schools" than you...and have, from their words, gotten a fairly clear idea of what they "teach"..

Whatever, you don't think one photo is capable of being a flash of insight into perfection, fine..
Maybe go watch some local guys do donuts in their bro-trucks.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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MattP
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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 09, 2015 12:36PM
If I may interject, as a kid growing up on a farm in the UK I had a 3 mile windy dirt road as my permenant test track, my dad brought me a £150 Mk1 Escort 1100cc and said "give er" so I did, in spades. I got used to every bump, every corner, every grade change and I learnt so much from the repartition of weekends and holidays just flying down that road, and when I wanted to learn handbrake control I went into a grass field and did the same again all my pocket money went on gas and fixing tyres. Now am I the fastest driver on the stages, no. But I am able to throw a truck around without the panic and fear of crashing.
I'm not saying schools are a complete waste of hard earned money, but at $3500 would I go to one, not sure. Will i try and find another 3 mile dirt road and spend the same amount of money going back and forth down it, hell yeah. Alot of car control can't be taught, its organic it starts young and grows with you, the stuff that made you wide eyed and sweaty palmed at 16 isn't anywhere close to the same feeling at 46.
I love to see the young Scandinavian kids giving a lesson in car control to the old guard, I've always said an 18 yo Scandi rally driver has at least 8 years sideways experiance on someone from the rest of Europe and here. Am I jealous of it, no I had the good fortune of having it. Are others maybe.



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Re: One piccie says almost all. Save money, be faster.
August 10, 2015 12:21AM
Quote
ALS FTW
The sport I was involved in is irrelevant.

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