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SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?

Posted by RALLYRS 
RALLYRS
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SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 16, 2015 04:22PM
So this last year was the pilot program for SCCA getting back into Rallysprint.


2015's pilot events were initially both called RallySprint, but then later split into 2 different names.

Now it's-"RallyTrials" and "RallySprint".

RallyTrials is just a slightly faster and slighty longer course than that normally allowed in SCCA Rallyx.
So run on a closed course like rallyx

Rallysprint, like other sanctioning bodies RallySprints,will be more like a stage rally,but no notes or transits...basically a single rally stage ran back and forth on closed roads.


So their stepped plan for the American Rallyist is:

SCCA Rallyx>SCCA RallyTrials>SCCA RallySprint>(Non SCCA) Stage Rally.




Here is some drone footage of the RallyTrial held at Prairie City this year:






Here is some onboard from the RallySprint at Team O'Neil's this year:







This year's pilot program required a rally or road raced caged log booked car for either the RallyTrials or RallySprint, but signs point to possible a 4 point roll bar being allowed for RallyTrials for 2016.

Unfortunately the reg's are not finalized yet.

But lower entry fees, less traveling,not having to have have a race License or drivers suit,full rally cage, Etc. may be beneficial to those who cannot commit to stage rally at this time.

What do you guys think?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/18/2015 01:11PM by RALLYRS.
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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 16, 2015 04:25PM
sounds like a good idea, affordable for us no budget folks that want to do more than a rallycross but can not afford a full stage rally



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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 16, 2015 04:42PM
Quote
RALLYRS
What do you guys think?

I think there's going to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth if "RallyCross" (dang spikycaps) courses have to have a maximum length so as not to interfere with RallyTrials or whatever it will be called, 'cos a lot of our courses are 2 minutes + and up to five minutes long.

And irony. If you say RallyCross you think motocross. But you say RallyTrials you think "trials" - which is more akin to how some regions run their 'cross courses, real tight and slow and you're more worried about dabbing (hitting cones) than setting a time.



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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 16, 2015 04:52PM
I'd hope speed would be determining factor between RallyCross and RallyTrials, not course length.

Quote
Pete
And irony. If you say RallyCross you think motocross. But you say RallyTrials you think "trials"
Agreed, not a great name.

Why no notes on RallySprint?
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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 16, 2015 09:34PM
Actually,
Jemba style stage notes were provided with registration at the o neil event.

I was remembering Nasa's rally in a box Rallysprint page where it said
"no notes" for their event...
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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 06:27AM
Quote
RALLYRS
I was remembering Nasa's rally in a box Rallysprint page where it said "no notes" for their event...
Meaning that there would not be four thousand dollar Jemba notes provided to the racer. Since there was recce the intent is naturally that notes would be used by the racer, they would just be their own.

Anders



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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 07:03AM
I like it. I ran both TeamO rally sprints and they were a blast, hauled up there friday afternoon, raced saturday and was home by midnight. The format was fun, flowed well and allowed for the mistakes of a newbee without killing the day with the formalities of a real rally.

Cost was spot on at 200ish for the amount of seat time and site and speed.

Now to convince them to do a winter one
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Anders Green
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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 07:22AM
Quote
RALLYRS
So their stepped plan for the American Rallyist is:

SCCA Rallyx>SCCA RallyTrials>SCCA RallySprint>(Non SCCA) Stage Rally.

For reference, their previous (2004) stepped plan for "CircuitRally" and RallySprint programs:
http://www.motorsport.com/scca/news/rally-prorally-new-closed-course-rally-program-announced/

And before that, their 1999 stepped plan:
http://linaracing.com/temp/VisionGuide.pdf

Quote
RALLYRS
What do you guys think?

Based on what they've announced and accomplished in the past, I was surprised when even a single "New RallySprint" event happened.

I think that adding another level of cage construction (between zero and "full cage"winking smiley for a program where the geographic event density is going to be super low is unlikely to catch on.

We do have people come to rally from rallycross... but not a lot. In ten years of our active local club putting on rallycrosses, one guy has stepped up to rally. There's usually around 20-40 people in the novice class at Sandblast Rally, the local rally, so about 10 brand new guys. So of all brand new to the local event people, it's maybe 1 out of 100 in the last decade came from rallycross? So maybe that goes to 2, or 3? Or, perhaps, it goes the other way: if they build a "half cage" maybe they find that's enough fun and they stop at that run on the ladder. There's just no way to know what's going to happen.

But of the four rungs:
RallyCross ok, this exists and is doing well. congrats to the scca and many many small clubs putting these on
RallyTrials in name they had one, but that event required rally cars with full cages, so actually none of these have happened and there are no rules for them
RallySprint these exist already. The SCCA versions have not published a ruleset after about a year in, using RA and NRS rules instead
Rally these exist already

So the only piece that's actually been added to the ladder is the one that's still entirely hypothetical.

Bottom line, I think some new folks might get interested. So far, I haven't seen SCCA add anything structurally to the sport that wasn't there or available already.

Anders



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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 09:49AM
Last time I chatted with someone more deeply involved with it than myself, the big catch was that they weren't interested in doing anything that wasn't a "physically" closed venue - gated, fenced, whatever.

So, closing the closest stretch of public rally-suitable road and running up and down it all day isn't going to happen. If you live near an off-road park or a rally school, you're set I suppose...



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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 12:28PM
The scuttlebutt I have heard is that the push was for IT legal cages, because that is a simple proposition and it opens the door for any IT (or, *gack* LeMons) cars out there. As was so eloquently put, if you require stage rally cages, the only people interested will be stage rally people, and they won't be interested in any useful numbers.



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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 12:52PM
Do we need more people interested in rally sprints? do we care? the past two have been over booked with people coming from as far away as FL just for the even in NH. Until they can get more cars through or have enough events to wear out those of us without a full rally budget I think they have a good formula.
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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 02:07PM
The rallysprint push is def. a good thing and I hope it can grow to more than just events at Team O. Maybe the Southeast is an exception, between the DC and NER region SCCA rallycross crowd there is a lot of cross over between competitors and volunteers. What the actual rate is, who knows, and is 2 in 100 a success?



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si
Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 02:12PM
I think the rally sprints are an awesome idea, and I hope some come to the midwest. I think there's plenty of audience for them, but the question is, would you tow 1000 miles for one? Probably not.

Seems to me that Rally Trials could just be run as Rally Sprints, or together. A stage rally tends to include both anyhow, so eh, dunno that it needs to be its own thing.

I will cross my fingers that some more Sprints show up and hopefully some in the midwest in the coming years.
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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 02:18PM
Rallycross used to feed most rally participants in our region. That nearly disappeared. We've been trying to help make the transition but also get people to go both ways and encourage those wanting to rally to also go try rallycross. I bought a cheap Impreza for a shop rallycross car. Pay for others to race it. Putting my 20 year old cousin and his buddies that are into cars in it for nect year. Groom new talent.



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Re: SCCA's "Stepped" plan for Rally in the USA-Good idea or bound to fizzle?
November 17, 2015 02:28PM
Quote
KTurner
What the actual rate is, who knows, and is 2 in 100 a success?

Why is someone jumping from rallycross to rally sprints important. I know just as many people who have built a rally car but can't afford to rally, as I do people who enjoy rallycross without any intention of jumping up to anything else. The thought that we are going to build rally, by bringing them up from rallycross through rallysprint, I feel is a mislead belief. Look at all the autocrossers who've build cars way in excess of the most common track car, only to spend its life running around the cones...

There are tons of people who don't see rallycross as having any real transfer to rally and these are the people who have log-booked cars hidden away waiting for the right event, the money to come clear, the go ahead from the significant other, the smaller event they can try it out on without blowing thousands of dollars. These are the people we should be looking for. The people with lives that revolve outside of rally on the regular and delve in to appease their driving needs.

Filling the entry list with a good number on the waitlist is what we need and have. Growing event numbers and diversifying the location and stages will keep the entry lists full and the customers happy.

Sure its not pulling people up the chain from rallyx like expected, you can lead a horse to water, but if the fucker ain't thirsty
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