So now there is a quasi-open class?

Ok, so I went and read the rules. Taking into account the bulletin from today, here's my take:

Group 2 specifically has a rule 9A which states engine must be derived from same manufacturer.

National Open, Open Light, & Group 5 - don't have wording like what's used for Group 2, so with the removal of Article 10.2.A.2, I don't see these classes having any requirement for engine to match vehicle.

Where are you guys seeing otherwise?

Dave

I read the same for Open - question is, why? Which open car is planning on using a non-OE derived engine? Are the GRC cars running a non-Subaru/Ford engine and they want to run a common platform next year?

NLO will be the current Open with OE engines?

n. The engine block and cylinder head must be OE from the
entered manufacturer, produced in minimum numbers of 1,000 in
a model year.
o. Cylinder heads and blocks may only be modified by scraping
(removal) of material. Material may not be added to a cylinder
head or block.
p. Maximum compression ratio is 11:1.
q. Connecting rods must be ferrous metal.
r. Water injection is not allowed.
s. The oiling system must be wet sump, unless dry sump is OE.
t. Only the racing fuel specified for National Limited Open Class, or
locally available standard unleaded "pump" gasoline (per Article
10.1.D.2.b) is allowed.
Rationale: Part of the addition of the National Limited Open Class.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2015 07:28PM by si.

This is fantastic news! Finaly rally has started to catch up with the rest of motorsports! I cant believe all the haters! They finally made rally obtainable for the average demographic! You can say yet another class! SP is finally a waste of time and effort if it wasnt for Subie bucks that class is now pointless! Now open up the open rules a little more to allow old coo cars to be able to run and you will finally have the USA racer demographic covered on all fronts! I do hate the name it should be modified class seeing thats what it is. Good move for rally finally another awd obtainable car that puts it in the drivers hands!

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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so what's the boost limit on the 36mm turbo? and I hope to see a lot of rear wing's being swapped around.

Quote
Reamer
This is fantastic ... They finally made rally obtainable for the average demographic!

I'm genuinely curious: how is SP not already this?

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

So NASA has allowed franken swaps for years... How many have showed up? Rally is saved!

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One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

SP has your hands tied to a newer car with there up date back date rules. SP rules you cant even change your shift knob but you can spend big cash on wrc spindles. SP doesnt allow after market suspension so when you brake trailing arms that are week you have to buy oem weak ones. This class allows a gc subaru to be able to win the class. SP they wouldnt even be competative. Basicly SP held back the abuility to build a good solid yet affordable competative car. This class does. I never ran an SP class car because of the silly rules. I now have bought a GC subaru for the new class. I am also making changes to my currrent car to make it legal for this class. One of the cars will be available for rent if any one is intrested! The competion that every one in SP has raved about will now be this new class.

The engine swap rule doesnt do much at this point with the fire wall,floor board rules. If they thru those away you may be surprised at what may show up! An evo datson or a subie mustang! a 39 chevy sedan with an awd swap. The limits of cool looking neat to see rally cars on stage roads could be endless.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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There is no boost limit as long as your not beating Higgins! Its just there incase you get to fast for safety.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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Quote
Reamer
Basicly SP held back the abuility to build a good solid yet affordable competative car.

I don't see how this could be possible. All the cars in SP class are constrained by the same rules. Of course they're competitive with EACH OTHER.

If what you're saying is that SP cars couldn't be competitive for the overall, no, and they were never intended to do that.

All the particulars of SP vs NLO and what is or isn't permitted is immaterial, because what I'm talking about is the intent and execution of the creation of the class.

So...

The beginning. 1970s. One class, which was "everybody".

Later, many racers say "Hey, I can't keep up with these fancy cars at the front! We need a class that's constrained, to keep costs down, where you're only allowed to do certain things, so that we can have meaningful competition!" and poof, Production Class was born.

Later, many racers in Production Class said "Hey, the Open class cars are going way faster than us and they're getting all the attention! If we were allowed JUST a little more power/speed/options then WE would be fast, it would keep costs down, and we could have meaningful competition!" and poof, Production GT was born.

Later, many racers in Open said "Hey, the REALLY Open class cars are going way faster than us and they're getting all the attention! If we were allowed JUST a little more power/speed/options then WE would be fast, it would keep costs down, and we could have meaningful competition!" and poof, SP was born. The new cars were more expensive than PGT class, and off they went.

Later, many racers in Open said "Hey, the REALLY Open class cars are going way faster than us and they're getting all the attention! If we were allowed JUST a little more power/speed/options then SP class than WE would be fast, it would keep costs down, and we could have meaningful competition!" and poof, NLO was born. The new cars were more expensive than SP class, and off you go.

To me it seems like for 40 years racers near, but not in reach of, the front thought they could carve out a limited place where they would practically be open but all the costs would be constrained. And it's not like "Oh, it's just that the cars have gotten better." They have, but the tech to build an NLO car was there when SP was created.

My prediction, which I don't think is crazy guesswork:

1) an Open class car will still win the 2016 championship
2) NLO class racers will get about as much publicity in 2016 as SP racers got in 2015.
3) Racers in NLO class will spend more money than if they had raced in SP.

So what I'm interested in, and I'm not asking rhetorically, is this new class, which was designed with the same motives as all the previous classes, why will it succeed in this mission where all the others, as evidenced by their being superseded, have not?

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Can we have one 2wd class now?

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
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Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

What are you going to do with a GC impreza in the new class under the title of "solid yet affordable competitive car" that you couldn't do in Open Light previously with one? Except, with a lot more "affordable" in Open Light. I don't see how opening the rules for it to let you dump a bunch more money in makes it more so.

Quote
Anders Green

Later, many racers in Production Class said "Hey, the Open class cars are going way faster than us and they're getting all the attention! If we were allowed JUST a little more power/speed/options then WE would be fast, it would keep costs down, and we could have meaningful competition!" and poof, Production GT was born.


Anders

Let me correct that for you.

Later, many racers in Production Class said, "Hey, the Plymouth Fire Arrows with their big 2.6 liter engines are going way faster than us with our little 1.6 and 2.0 liter engines. We need a Production class for cars with bigger engines!" and poof, THAT'S how Production GT was born.

And that's how Plymouth saved rally.

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Two thoughts.
No one builds cars for NASA only.
This new open class is simply what open class should be without costing VSC revenue for Subaru.

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Grant Hughes

To make rally meet the demand of the biggest demographic is what makes rally stronger. You look at it as over all speed. I look at as over all speed with the car your given. You build a set of rules that the biggest demographic can afford and let the Drivers set the times. EVERY motorsport has teared classing this is no different. The top fastest most expensive cars cost the most. You say what makes All the particulars of SP vs NLO and what is or isn't permitted is immaterial,I totally disagree with that. It is totally what makes this class better then SP. As a teard stile rule set. A guy can run OL decide he wants a turbo for what ever reason. He can do so with the same car and be competative. SP class was designed around manufacturers support and advertising potential. win on sunday buy on monday. NLO is designed around what the most awd rally demographic want to stay in the sport.

Open light to me is more expensive then open limited for less speed. Not to go into engine builds here but a Subaru n/a is not as reliable as a forced induction engine. Justin Prichard can now bolt a turbo on his ol car and really kick our asses. He can do this with 1 mildly built turbo engine and not worry if it blows up every rally. I like open light class a lot. Yet do a count of dnf,s do to engine failure and its way more then you think. Guys claim the 2.5 blows up all the time well yes the n/a 2.5 does blow up all the time because of the way n/a engines run. Forced induction engines are a lot less abusive on lower ends then the n/a engine. You can make over 3000 hp with an aluminum rod with forced induction. You put that same rod in a 350 hp small block chevy i bet you cant make 2 quater mile passes at the drag strip with out it breaking.

If a OL car owner is rallying for fun and just wants a good reliable car and isnt looking for over all podiums just looking for enough speed to push his confort zone. NLO is a over all cheaper class the OL. Weak over built N/A engines that barley make 200hp are ticking time bombs. a good solid ej 207 turbo engine will net you way more smile per mile and you will be able to run it for years with just oil changes.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts