BIG NEWS! Rally America annouces Big Sponsorship deal in Group 2

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Reamer
eliminating multiple tire manufacturers is a form of less rules.

I'm sorry but I have to call you out on this. That is just a stupid bullshit statement and actually made me laugh out loud how obtuse it is. Making a spec tire rule IS MORE RULES. Leaving tire choice open is no rules on that subject. How is adding rules where there were none before a form of less rules?

Listen, I work in the world of spec tires, professional road racing. For the most part spec tire rules suck and are unwelcome. For example our team had Yokohama as an important partner and sponsor and when ALMS got absorbed by the Borg, I mean Grand Am, we lost that deal because of the spec Continental tire in the new series. That's a big hit to the budget. Now we get the privilege of paying full price for shitty tires just like everyone else. I guess we're supposed to be happy with that. Well the only ones happy with spec tire rules are the sanction body and the tire manufacturer that wins that contract.

Jeff tries to give all the reasons why he thinks spec tire rules are the greatest thing ever and will level the playing field and keep costs down (never does), etc. but those reasons are all irrelevant in this case. Those aren't the reasons RA used in making this deal. For them it's just about the cash.

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Reamer
eliminating multiple tire manufacturers is a form of less rules.

Less choice does not equal less rules.

If there are no rules at all, you have near infinite choices. Run a nuclear powered submarine. Nearly every added rule reduces the choices you have. (With exceptions like "Tires are free." With lots and lots of rules, you can reduce the choice down to zero. (fully spec'd and provided cars)

If there's something in writing, and it's something you have to comply with, that's one more rule. And that's obviously what we have here.

It's more rules, not less.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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BobOfTheFuture
Pretty sure us regionals can pool enough cash with most entry lists to make the 1K to spread out between 1st, 2nd and 3rd and still be making money compared to paying for the national license, national entry and the spec tire... Only drawback is you don't get to be mentioned (maybe) on a internet radio show


Please tell me if I'm missing something, but do the math, there is no benefit here.


At least, No benefit for the competitor...

Have they somewhere announced the Big Pay Back?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

You rally guys just dont get it because your new to the spec tire game. You guys dont look at big picture competition you just think about your selves. Dave points out why the spec tire is better when he tries to point out how its worse! He had a tire deal others did not. He now has to pay the same as every other competitor and that leveled the playing field. He says it killed road racing yet i watched a Continental tire event last week on TV. A series i had never herd of before the spec tire deal he bitches about. Yes team owners are going to bitch thats what we do.

This is not a grass roots regional deal. if your a grass routs guy this does not effect you in any way. grass roots to me is good for getting new guys into the sport. Nationals and spec tires and rules made to promote competition is what keeps people for more then 3 events.

Call me ignorant if you want. I know my back ground very well. Ive lived the spec tire low rules form of racing for over 20 years. I know what builds consistent car counts. Go look up the history of the imca modified division and see how huge it is in the entire country. Look at every race track they run at and see how there car counts are compared to all the other classes.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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Quote
john vanlandingham
Have they somewhere announced the Big Pay Back?

John just make sure you're sitting down
http://www.maxxis.com/news/automotive/maxxis-and-rally-america-announce-partnership

This comment just made my cringe:

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Bill Fogg
...said Bill Fogg Sr., owner of Rally America, Inc. “Maxxis International is recognized around the world as a leader in the manufacturing and distribution of competition tires for professionals and enthusiasts...

Shirley they know they're preaching to the choir when they publish these press releases... only us rally guys care for rally, and we all know this is utter bullshit, so dont these idiot have shame in their faces for throwing shit like that at us??? Talk about embellishing something eh!

Dont miss read my post either. I said a FORM of less rules. That is not the perfect wording. If your a team and are looking into a series you look at the rules 1 by 1 you decide if it fits what your looking for. When you come to the tire rules your brain explodes with all these potential options. i want whats best for me to be competative. You then spend spend spend on testing this that and the other. ort you listen to buddies or you look at what whos who has for tires and pic from there. Brakim shows pics of all his tire piles. Its sad he has that many different brands of tires trying to find what works best for his program. With a spec tire that is out the window. You got what every one else has now you can move on to better things then palying the super expensive tire game!

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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Cosworth

Quote
john vanlandingham
Have they somewhere announced the Big Pay Back?

John just make sure you're sitting down
http://www.maxxis.com/news/automotive/maxxis-and-rally-america-announce-partnership

This comment just made my cringe:

Quote
Bill Fogg
...said Bill Fogg Sr., owner of Rally America, Inc. “Maxxis International is recognized around the world as a leader in the manufacturing and distribution of competition tires for professionals and enthusiasts...

Shirley they know they're preaching to the choir when they publish these press releases... only us rally guys care for rally, and we all know this is utter bullshit, so dont these idiot have shame in their faces for throwing shit like that at us??? Talk about embellishing something eh!

There have been whole forest level to make paper for warehouses full of books teaching Americans that they should never have any reason to be ashamed.
I see in the announcemnt that they say

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"National competitors in Open, Super Production and National Limited Open who race on the Maxxis R19 can win products through a contingency program, with two tires awarded for first place and one tire each for racers who finish second and third. "

That's the way to do it.
Incentives.
You want the dough--YOU choose to use the tire and then you are voluntarily eligible to get the dough. No need in an OPEN class to mandate any product. Mandate car specs. mandate limits.

Formerly back when Michelin was the Series Sponsor ---and when it was Bridgestone before them---you put the sticker on the car..A nice discrete little sticker.. OK, fine..

But you could use any tire you wanted.. IF you used Michelin tires and IF you won or were second or third you got (25 years ago money) $400 for first (or something)...Fine.

This is the sort of thing that happens when the people that "run" things have never been competitors ever, and are mere "entrepreneurs" ( I mean look at the word: entre 'between" and prenez "to take"--they jam themselves into things and take)

Furhter---IF they wanted to do this in a SPEC CLASS then I have no a word to say, or some made up bullshit class invented just to have a class for somebody to get a trophy regardless of how they do like "production" or this "Be Spec". Fine. the whole class is bogus and bullshit and nobody care and we ll know it..
But not in an open class.

What's next? Mandating what washer fluid we use? what oil brand and weight? What air filter?
What brand piston? What wheeel bearing brand?

I have thought the Foggs were just some rich dumb fucks who wanted to play "around" rally since they lack the disciple and knowledge and grit to DO rally, and that they are, like most of their social class, idiots.. Now I no longer think that. Now i know that is the case..

And people happily drop the trousers and spread their cheeks..."That's what you have to do if you want to run with the BIG boys"..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I dont think rally in the US needs a "level playing field." We barely have enough full season national entries in any class to fill a broom closet. Most make a few events a year to begin with, national or otherwise. Just seems silly.

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First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
Driver (0), Co-Driver (7)
Organizer (3), Volunteer (3)
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Last Updated, Apr 9, 2023

I'm pooling my money to make the tires I sell be spec tire for Open Lite class for all regionals. At least there are a ton of drivers that I could piss off that way. And I'd stop letting them run 205 width tires.
Actually, I'll make the 225/45R17 gravel tire be the spec tire. Then people really can't complain about much. I'm running that tire size for hill climbs this year.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
Reamer
Dont miss read my post either. I said a FORM of less rules. That is not the perfect wording.

Jeff, I didn't misread your post.

It is in no way less rules. It is not a form of less rules. It's not a style of less rules. It is an additional rule.

As I have stated, and as you have stated, this new rule accomplishes a reduction in the number of choices you can make. This reduction of choice is made possible by adding a new rule.

You view this reduction of choice as a positive thing within the current context. Whether it is, or isn't, is a separate discussion. But it is absolutely, without question, a case of "more rules".

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Reamer
I know what builds consistent car counts. Go look up the history of the imca modified division and see how huge it is in the entire country.

Ok, I did. Here's what I found:

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hotrod.com
But in the '70s, the sanctioning body fell on hard times. The IMCA was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy when Hawkeye Racing News publisher Keith Knaack bought it and began a retooling process that would shape local dirt track racing for years to come.

Knaack was a pioneer and an innovator who had a unique vision of motorsports. It was a simple concept: Keep racing affordable for the grassroots racer.

Now we know their secret formula.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green
It is in no way less rules. It is not a form of less rules. It's not a style of less rules. It is an additional rule.

It is one less rule that people have to search for a way to exploit.

Level playing fields...
Let's all agree that BFG was the tire to have, Buffum was the importer for years. Let's say he didn't personally like someone so he decides he simply won't sell them tires and voila, they are at a competitive disadvantage. I have about 16 BFG tires with Hankook stickers on them from a team running the better tire despite having sponsorship from Hankook. It was NOT the first time people did it.
Better yet, BFG decides they aren't going to allow import of the tires into the US anymore. I have a connection however in the Czech Republic and import 80 BFG rally tires for my own program while everyone else is left scrambling and trying to find the time to test Dmack, Maxxis, Pirelli, and any other option available in the world to try to find something that MIGHT be competitive with the tire.

I support spec tires and spec fuel provided they aren't garbage. My only complaint with Maxxis is that they are choosing to only have direct sales. Tires are nearly loss leaders from a retail standpoint but we do need to have them for sale.

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Grant Hughes

Ok you are correct i retract my statement that is not less of a rule! It is in fact 1 rule designed to make Teams more equal with out a bunch of stupid rules to try to inadvertently make cars equal. Like SP rules. This rule with a few other rules to promote an equal playing field car wise will help car counts in my opinion.

It looks like 45 years ago imca almost failed re wrote the rule book to its current version and is now the simplest rule set i know of that brings cars out in the thousands nationally.

Keep racing affordable for the grassroots racer. This is the ultimate goal other then i dont like the term grass roots. But yes Imca has a simple set of rules that include a spec tire that makes for very good car counts and competition across the country.

Rally to me suffers badly by not having structure designed around cost effective competition. Rally does need the big spender class also but the core of rally needs a rule set that makes for close competition at a cost that the majority of rallist can afford. Yes the big money can still prevail but not by as big a margin. Drivers have to have the feeling they have competitive equipment or they just do a few for fun and quit.

Also ive ran Maxxis tires they are far from a junk tire. Im no super hero driver but they hold up well. The cost of the tire compared to quality doesnt seem to be the issue as of yet.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
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Quote
Gravity Fed
I dont think rally in the US needs a "level playing field." We barely have enough full season national entries in any class to fill a broom closet. Most make a few events a year to begin with, national or otherwise. Just seems silly.

In my opionion your statment is 100% why we dont have full fields of cars! There has to be competition or were just doing this for fun. Most people do things for fun a few times a year and thats it. Not many people live at cedar point and ride roller coasters every day.

People who seek competition are the people who need to be catered to when it comes to sustaining car counts. Newbs with an obtainable goal will also help.

JVL pushes his rwd program because its a good affordable rally car. The issue is the rules are written in a way that convince people they need more then that to be competitive. Yes veterans know the cars can be competitive but the rules show to much available money gap to make people want to build them.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts