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What's too expensive in Dollars per mile

Posted by aj_johnson 
aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 22, 2016 11:41AM
Poll
What is a reasonable Dollars per smile for a rally involving a 250 or more mile tow
Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
12 votes were received.
10$ per mile 5
 
42%
15$ Per mile 2
 
17%
20$ per mile 0
 
0%
bacon 5
 
41%



My inital post was non constructive.

And what can be done as a competitor to reduce costs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2016 11:27PM by aj_johnson.
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Snidewhips
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Re: Another Dirtfish rally sprint that I won't be attending.
February 22, 2016 11:58AM
where are mt hood and ww? (not farmiliar what the acronym stands for) at that price thats good seat time. they're hill climbs yes?



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aj_johnson
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Re: Another Dirtfish rally sprint that I won't be attending.
February 22, 2016 12:06PM
Quote
Snidewhips
where are mt hood and ww? (not farmiliar what the acronym stands for) at that price thats good seat time. they're hill climbs yes?

Mt hood is run close to the same area as Oregon trail. Entry is 250 for 36 miles of fantastic forest service road.

Wild West is run by Gene up in wa. I forget what pricing was for that but it was also at least double the mileage for the same cost on real roads.

Dirtfish is run in an over sized parking lot with penalties for cones...
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Paul Buck
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Re: Another Dirtfish rally sprint that I won't be attending.
February 22, 2016 01:31PM
Get a couple of guys and some walkies together and $10 per person Oregon OHV permit. Head up to Tillamook State Forest OHV trails. Or whatever OHV trails are near you. I hear the OHV area in Washougal, WA is real fun as well. I think it's called Jackson Creek.
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aj_johnson
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Re: Another Dirtfish rally sprint that I won't be attending.
February 22, 2016 11:30PM
Quote
Paul Buck
Get a couple of guys and some walkies together and $10 per person Oregon OHV permit. Head up to Tillamook State Forest OHV trails. Or whatever OHV trails are near you. I hear the OHV area in Washougal, WA is real fun as well. I think it's called Jackson Creek.

I'll check it out.

I edited the initial post because I was a whiny turd. Maybe something constructive can come from it.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 12:24AM
Quote
aj_johnson
My inital post was non constructive.

And what can be done as a competitor to reduce costs

No it wasn't, it was fine.
Somebody scold you?



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aj_johnson
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 12:53AM
Actually no. Tho Norkus kindly pointed out that I'm a dick smiling smiley No point in getting in a pissing match with an organizer, and I would like to enter the event if anything can be done to support its cost being lowered. I complained of it being too expensive a few months ago and it didn't change anything. I don't like the price gouging (its cheaper per mile to enter OTR as a national). I don't care for the cone penalties. But if these simple things ever get straightened out I'd like to come play.
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 01:37AM
My answer:

Depends on the roads and the event. I'll go a long way if the roads are fun and the event is fun. If the roads are fun but the event is shitty, I'll look elsewhere. Likewise if the organizers are good but the roads are crap.

And I don't think you're a dick, although leaving dill-pickle-flavored sunflower seeds in my van puts on my "kinda weird" list.



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aj_johnson
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 09:01AM
Quote
hoche
although leaving dill-pickle-flavored sunflower seeds in my van puts on my "kinda weird" list.

Wife craves em every pregnancy. I've grown attached.

And being a dick was how I worded my response to his facebook announcement. Apparently it was too blunt. I got responses like "Racing is expensive" from photographers and rallyx people. Dan meant it in good humor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2016 09:42AM by aj_johnson.
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NoCoast
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 11:11AM
Anything divided by zero is undefined.
If we evaluate the lim (mi -> 0) $/mi you'd get infinity redardless of entry fee.
So from an asymptotic approach, as miles are reduced the price will skyrocket as the miles are reduced.
Thus, we should all take up running.
Even mountain bikers are getting kicked out of wilderness areas.



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Robert Culbertson
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 11:17AM
I'm assuming the /mile metric is for stage miles, and not towing + transits.
So is the poll based on a rally sprint or a stage rally?

$10/mile for a rally sprint... maybe worth it. I'd like to see $5/mile. I can go out and do endurance road racing or an open track day for $2-3/mile.

$10/mile for a big stage rally. That would be an entry fee of $1k-$1500, so I would probably skip that one.

As far as reducing costs? Insurance, and land use/road repair are probably the biggest costs in a rally. Then I would assume facilities costs (banquets, meeting rooms, etc.) Most rallies break even on a good day (or so I have been told), so simply charging less for entries is probably not going to help. Reducing costs through simplification can really be a big step in reducing costs. I was part of the planning committee for the Oregon Baja SAE competition in 2015. We were able to offer the 1200+ students more value and roll some money over into planning for the next event. This was done through simplification and seeking out sponsorships and deals (non-profit, so it's a tax deduction).
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NoCoast
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 11:38AM
There is likely no form of any event that will get away with less than a $250 entry fee.
You can easily look at what NRS Rallysprint in a box sanction/insurance fees are. It's about $2600 last I checked. How many entrants can you count on?
Our local facilities tend to be in the $3k range to rent the facility. That sometimes includes grading and road prep or repair, sometimes does not.
So we are talking about $5-6k in fixed costs. We still need to pay some EMS, find enough volunteers, figure out timing system, buy banner tape, cones, or anything else needed.
So, don't expect any entry fee less than $250 ever. If you want a $50 entry fee, go rallycross.

Lastly the dollars per mile metric is really not that useful UNLESS you include all expenses. A single day 60 mile event and a two day 60 mile event that have the exact same entry fee are not directly comparable since you have extra hotel, food, and fuel expenses to consider.

Rallysprints are likely the future of the sport. Closed facility and single road events are much easier to staff, permit, etc. If every region were to pool resources and hold 3-4 rallysprints and one stage rally the sport would probably explode. If we could get people to stop spending stupid money on street cars and stop saying, "I can't afford to rally" and instead start saying, "how can I afford to rally?"



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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 12:06PM
Head north... instant 30% discount.
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aj_johnson
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 12:25PM
Quote
NoCoast
There is likely no form of any event that will get away with less than a $250 entry fee.
You can easily look at what NRS Rallysprint in a box sanction/insurance fees are. It's about $2600 last I checked. How many entrants can you count on?
Our local facilities tend to be in the $3k range to rent the facility. That sometimes includes grading and road prep or repair, sometimes does not.
So we are talking about $5-6k in fixed costs. We still need to pay some EMS, find enough volunteers, figure out timing system, buy banner tape, cones, or anything else needed.
So, don't expect any entry fee less than $250 ever.

I struggle with this point exactly because it's not true for other disciplinse. The 7 hillclimbs run in the pnw are all run at right around the 100$ entry fee. No cages required, similar timing equipment and the last two I've run have had a bbq and free beer for everyone sat night... Something doesn't figure.
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aj_johnson
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Re: What's too expensive in Dollars per mile
February 23, 2016 12:56PM
Quote
Not Trolling
Head north... instant 30% discount.
Cochrane is still 500 us for 55miles. That's 10$ a mile event.
Idaho is estimated 650 for an estimated 160 miles this year.
Idaho got 48 entries last year, Cochrane has 17? Iirc



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2016 12:59PM by aj_johnson.
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