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Cage Design - *UPDATED*

Fly like an Eagle Talon
Vinnie
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Re: Cage Design
April 08, 2016 12:57PM
Quote
NoCoast
Don't forget.gussets in roof X if you do that design!
Are Climb to Clouds unique ruleset? I thought they had rally rules.

Yup! Sort of, here is the line I was reading:

o For cars weighing 2,501 pounds or more with a driver: 1.750” x .095”
o .120 wall DOM tubing will be considered one OD size larger than .095 wall DOM tubing

Looks like 1.5x.120 is okay, I'll probably put that in the roof bars to get that extra bit of headroom.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: Cage Design
April 08, 2016 02:15PM
Quote
Fly like an Eagle Talon
Quote
NoCoast
Don't forget.gussets in roof X if you do that design!
Are Climb to Clouds unique ruleset? I thought they had rally rules.

Yup! Sort of, here is the line I was reading:

o For cars weighing 2,501 pounds or more with a driver: 1.750” x .095”
o .120 wall DOM tubing will be considered one OD size larger than .095 wall DOM tubing

Looks like 1.5x.120 is okay, I'll probably put that in the roof bars to get that extra bit of headroom.

Ah, the lovely kind of ambiguity hill climb rules are famous for.
One size larger. Is that a change in denominator of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32nd? Cause you can get tubing in probably every increment with enough money and effort.

I did hear that the PPIHC rules finally say FIA harnesses instead of their own specification and turning away brand new FIA belts that have 2" lap belts of 2" hans shoulder belt tapers.

Are you SURE you can't find a Galant somewhere to build instead? smiling smiley



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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Fly like an Eagle Talon
Vinnie
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Location: Massachusetts
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1990 Eagle Talon AWD



Re: Cage Design
April 08, 2016 04:00PM
Quote
NoCoast

Ah, the lovely kind of ambiguity hill climb rules are famous for.
One size larger. Is that a change in denominator of 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, or 32nd? Cause you can get tubing in probably every increment with enough money and effort.

I did hear that the PPIHC rules finally say FIA harnesses instead of their own specification and turning away brand new FIA belts that have 2" lap belts of 2" hans shoulder belt tapers.

Are you SURE you can't find a Galant somewhere to build instead? smiling smiley

I think it means 0.25" increase haha. Definitely ambiguous though!

I could more easily build a Galant.... But I'm hell bent on getting this Talon on stage!
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turoc
Ozgur Simsek
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 08, 2016 06:46PM
As i had mentioned on FB before, tight fitment is gonna be critical and from some of the cages built by that same guy his stuff is not. There's a reason he charges 1/3 the price compared to everyone else. The foot plate placement and design will also change things a bit. I would also make sure the "fia bar" - half lateral support is as low as possible while at it too. (Pretty sure its 200mm now)



rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!
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Vinnie
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 10, 2016 07:53AM
Quote
turoc
As i had mentioned on FB before, tight fitment is gonna be critical and from some of the cages built by that same guy his stuff is not. There's a reason he charges 1/3 the price compared to everyone else. The foot plate placement and design will also change things a bit. I would also make sure the "fia bar" - half lateral support is as low as possible while at it too. (Pretty sure its 200mm now)

Yup, I emphasized to him that the half laterals in particular need to be tight! He knows though, he's built a few rally cages so far. You mean the A-pillar reinforcement bar right? I told him to move it 3 or 4 inches down the windshield (100mm), you're saying I can go 200mm down? Seems awfully far down, is that in the new rules for this year or something?
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 10, 2016 09:56AM
No, it still has to be within 100 mm of top and bottom.
The 200mm is the windshield run dimension that determines if you need an a-pillar reinforcement and is not worth thinking about unless you are building a VW Bug or classic mini.



Grant Hughes
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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: Cage Design
April 10, 2016 03:52PM
Quote
Fly like an Eagle Talon
Looks like 1.5x.120 is okay, I'll probably put that in the roof bars to get that extra bit of headroom.

You know that 1.5x.120 is heavier than 1.75x.095, right?



Self-righteous douche canoe
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Vinnie
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Re: Cage Design
April 11, 2016 06:14AM
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hoche
Quote
Fly like an Eagle Talon
Looks like 1.5x.120 is okay, I'll probably put that in the roof bars to get that extra bit of headroom.

You know that 1.5x.120 is heavier than 1.75x.095, right?

I'm well aware. The difference in weight for just the roof bars is insignificant, but the extra headroom is important in a DSM where the windshield is so raked and the roof is low in general. The smaller bending radius could be helpful too, when trying to bend to follow the contour of the roof.
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Fly like an Eagle Talon
Vinnie
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 11, 2016 06:15AM
Quote
NoCoast
No, it still has to be within 100 mm of top and bottom.
The 200mm is the windshield run dimension that determines if you need an a-pillar reinforcement and is not worth thinking about unless you are building a VW Bug or classic mini.

Oh right, I know what you're talking about now... definitely can't take advantage of the 200mm rule here!
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Thomas Kimsey
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 20, 2016 02:58PM
How is Bob doing on the cage?
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Fly like an Eagle Talon
Vinnie
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 20, 2016 04:31PM
Quote
Thomas Kimsey
How is Bob doing on the cage?

He hasn't started it yet, the seats should be getting to him tomorrow or Friday. He's pretty busy with circle track season starting up so I told him second weekend of May I'd like to come get it. I'll post on this thread once I get it back!
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 20, 2016 04:53PM
Quote
Fly like an Eagle Talon
He hasn't started it yet, the seats should be getting to him tomorrow or Friday. He's pretty busy with circle track season starting up so I told him second weekend of May I'd like to come get it. I'll post on this thread once I get it back!

Did he tell you you'll get it when he finishes it.
I love customer imposed deadlines on fabrication projects. Almost as much as I love running out of welding wire or gas 20 minutes after everything closes on a work night or Saturday afternoon.



Grant Hughes
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Fly like an Eagle Talon
Vinnie
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Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: 04/07/2016
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 23

Rally Car:
1990 Eagle Talon AWD



Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 20, 2016 07:55PM
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NoCoast
Quote
Fly like an Eagle Talon

Did he tell you you'll get it when he finishes it.
I love customer imposed deadlines on fabrication projects. Almost as much as I love running out of welding wire or gas 20 minutes after everything closes on a work night or Saturday afternoon.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was imposing a deadline on him, it was more the opposite really... Just letting him know I wasn't in a rush!
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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 21, 2016 05:05PM
Quote
NoCoast
I love customer imposed deadlines on fabrication projects.

Coming from the other side of the fence, I love fabricator-created deadline extensions because another more lucrative/interesting/personal project came up.

It's the shop's job to estimate a completion date and then stick to it.



Self-righteous douche canoe
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ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
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Re: Cage Design - *UPDATED*
April 21, 2016 11:00PM
Quote
hoche
Quote
NoCoast
I love customer imposed deadlines on fabrication projects.

Coming from the other side of the fence, I love fabricator-created deadline extensions because another more lucrative/interesting/personal project came up.

It's the shop's job to estimate a completion date and then stick to it.
No excuses, it comes from propensity to do just as you said, shuffling projects around a schedule should only occur based on parts availability. Once all customers, and all staff are aware of this essential key to fair customer service it's a simple process. Take the work order at bottom of list and execute. If it's something done on a regular basis and what should be second nature to complete there is no real excuse for schedule slip. Don't make promises you can't keep.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
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