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How does this happen

Posted by Not Trolling 
Not Trolling
Keith Morison
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How does this happen
August 15, 2016 01:53PM
As an organizer I tend to carefully watch entry levels and review the feedback we get from our 'competitor evaluation forms' teams must submit at the end of our events. Understanding you can't please everyone, I think that paying attention to what your competitors and volunteers WANT is important to an event's longevity.

This past weekend saw the 10th running of Rally Lac aux Sables in Quebec.
The event has had an average of 20 cars enter the event, with the highest entry being 32 cars and the lowest, before this year, of 14.
Last year the event started 17 cars, which would have been an indication of troubles to anyone (their average up till then was 22 cars).

But, this year saw 7 entries, 5 cars and two motorcycles. Less than a third of the cars entered compared to last year.

I'm sitting here wondering how an event could see such a dramatic loss in entries.

Before anyone jumps to 'the economy' as a reason, rallies in Ontario are seeing higher entries as are the two Quebec nationals that have already run this year. We're also seeing increasing entries this year in western Canada.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2016 01:54PM by Not Trolling.
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NoCoast
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 02:56PM
Is it part of the series that jumped ship to NRS and has spec tires and spec fuel?



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2016 02:57PM by NoCoast.
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Not Trolling
Keith Morison
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 03:10PM
Yes and No.
This is the last event of the Quebec Regional Championship, which has spec tires and spec fuel (even for pump), this year.

The new series doesn't have a direct replacement for this event, but is running a winter event in the same - or close - location from what I can tell.

The 'Extreme Elite Challenge' hasn't made a clear announcement regarding spec fuel or spec tires, but they do involve two companies as sponsors who have required being a 'spec series' to get involved in the past.
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dreamsofjvl
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 03:20PM
Quote
Portneuf (12 November 2016), M├ękinac (14 January 2017), La Tuque City (28 January 2017), Sanair (21-22 April 2017) and Ville Saguenay (17 June 2017)

It shows Eric Tremblay was the organizer for Sables, so maybe he decided he didn't want to organize the event to be part of his new series?

Is it really fair to take what could possibly be an outlier in the data? There are so many variables that go into choosing which events to compete at. Additionally, those from La Belle province have an abundance of event choices to choose from. Maybe this year simply didn't work out.

Having said that, there were also some pretty awesome prizes available to be won if a competitor was competing in the CXE next year:



Definitely food for thought though. Will be interesting to see what CXE gets for participation.
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Not Trolling
Keith Morison
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 03:53PM
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dreamsofjvl
Is it really fair to take what could possibly be an outlier in the data? There are so many variables that go into choosing which events to compete at. Additionally, those from La Belle province have an abundance of event choices to choose from. Maybe this year simply didn't work out.
Even if it were an outlier, losing two-thirds of your entries in a year is something that needs to be understood.

But, it appears to be a trend:

Event - 2013 - 2014 - 2015 - 2016
Touque - x - 19* - 19 - 17**
Sanair - 29 - 19 - 18 - 10
Sagnay - 27 - 18 - 20 - 13
Sables - 32 - 21 - 18 - 7

*Touque wasn't run, but Challange Hiver numbers used.
**Allowed use of "Sweden studs"

All I'm saying is that I'm wondering what happened to cause the downward trend.
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dreamsofjvl
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 04:09PM
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Not Trolling
All I'm saying is that I'm wondering what happened to cause the downward trend.

Oh absolutely, I too am curious if there was any one thing that had competitors not entering. Entries basically halved over the past 3 years.

Maybe the ECRC is gaining traction?

http://www.ecrc-crec.ca/index.php/en_ca/competitors-info/standings

45 unique entries so far, plenty of people I recognize from Quebec. The OPRC has 28 unique entries. Don't know how many crossover though.
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Mad Matt F
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 04:20PM
For what it's worth... I have had a very hard time navigating the websites to find what is running when in the Quebec region... and I live here. The last couple years the "season schedule" seems to be all over the place (the info not the schedule).

Maybe I just don't read Facebook type formatting well enough.
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Josh Wimpey
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 07:14PM
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Not Trolling
All I'm saying is that I'm wondering what happened to cause the downward trend.

Canada oil production and jobs fell pretty hard...



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Keith Morison
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 07:17PM
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Josh Wimpey
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Not Trolling
All I'm saying is that I'm wondering what happened to cause the downward trend.

Canada oil production and jobs fell pretty hard...

Which are significant in Western Canada, and we're still seeing increased entry levels over the last couple of years. That's why I said to not jump to the economy as a reason... 'cause it doesn't fit.
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NoCoast
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Re: How does this happen
August 15, 2016 09:04PM
Rallyists are a fickle group.
With too many options they'll pick the best one. Look at SWRC and CRS. probably an inverse relationship between the two. When competitors are dissatisfied with one they start new or go to others.
The answer is likely a mix of dissatisfaction with the series, economy, series length discouraging multi year participation, and unexplainable variance that lads to these swings.



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ElectroTech
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Re: How does this happen
August 16, 2016 12:19AM
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Not Trolling
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Josh Wimpey
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Not Trolling
All I'm saying is that I'm wondering what happened to cause the downward trend.

Canada oil production and jobs fell pretty hard...

Which are significant in Western Canada, and we're still seeing increased entry levels over the last couple of years. That's why I said to not jump to the economy as a reason... 'cause it doesn't fit.
Quebec and Ontario economies have rebounded on a stronger exchange rate for manufacturing(hundreds of jobs in my field where a few years ago there were none).
Its an inverse relationship, has been that way in most every leisure activity I've been involved in. A booming economy is an economy where many do not have enough free time and are frenetic in their travels, gotta go somewhere every weekend or shift off, not spend a few weekends to wrap up a rally car, race sled, hot rod etc.. Been through 2 slow periods here and 4 or 5 back in Newfoundland (albeit back home it was always a cycle of bad to worse and back). Time is the commodity most valuable, not money.



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Not Trolling
Keith Morison
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Re: How does this happen
August 16, 2016 09:35PM
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ElectroTech
Its an inverse relationship, has been that way in most every leisure activity I've been involved in. A booming economy is an economy where many do not have enough free time and are frenetic in their travels, gotta go somewhere every weekend or shift off, not spend a few weekends to wrap up a rally car, race sled, hot rod etc..

Interesting perspective... thanks for that.
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derekvincent
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Re: How does this happen
September 17, 2016 11:03PM
Keith as an organizer of one of the Ontario events I would say we need to be carful in saying that Ontario events are doing better. We have benefitted slightly from the ECRC and I budgeted my numbers for the last two years on 12 entries with an expected loss.

I do not think the mess in PQ helps with getting entries out but we have been suffering in general in eastern Canada for the last five years when a regional can have 25 entries and a waiting list.

Hell end of the day things like the Pines are down significantly.

D.



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Re: How does this happen
September 18, 2016 12:00AM
Quote
derekvincent
Keith as an organizer of one of the Ontario events I would say we need to be carful in saying that Ontario events are doing better. We have benefitted slightly from the ECRC and I budgeted my numbers for the last two years on 12 entries with an expected loss.

I do not think the mess in PQ helps with getting entries out but we have been suffering in general in eastern Canada for the last five years when a regional can have 25 entries and a waiting list.

Hell end of the day things like the Pines are down significantly.

D.

OK the what is clear..Why is the important question? Whaddya think why?



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Pete
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Re: How does this happen
September 18, 2016 08:13AM
Quote
ElectroTech
Its an inverse relationship, has been that way in most every leisure activity I've been involved in. A booming economy is an economy where many do not have enough free time and are frenetic in their travels, gotta go somewhere every weekend or shift off, not spend a few weekends to wrap up a rally car, race sled, hot rod etc.. Been through 2 slow periods here and 4 or 5 back in Newfoundland (albeit back home it was always a cycle of bad to worse and back). Time is the commodity most valuable, not money.

I've kinda noticed that too... when we had that alleged economy slowdown, people were spending MORE money on toy cars. Most of our slowdown was because people traded their old cars in for new ones on super-mega-ultra-discount and new cars don't need repair work and usually come with service packages nowadays anyways.

Rich people drive old cars and have money no matter the economy so they're a good place to focus business. Not-rich people lease whatever new car they can get for $99-199/month.

I remember my stepdad buying a new 5.7l Toyota pickup (Tundra?) for pennies - PENNIES - in 2008. I think his out-the-door was $17k. His credit rating was like in the negative numbers, but gas was almost $5/gallon and they were happy to move it off the lot.



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