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Merits of the MK3 Golf

Posted by SeamusMcC 
MattP
Matt Pullen
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 20, 2017 10:39PM
Tanveer Deen up in Canada uses an '02 Acura RSX to some effect, granted he does drive it like a go-kart....



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
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dreamsofjvl
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 21, 2017 09:34AM
Quote
MattP
Tanveer Deen up in Canada uses an '02 Acura RSX to some effect, granted he does drive it like a go-kart....

They aren't really the same thing though, 2000 and older civics/integras being double wishbone. And the Deen's have done a ton of work to that car. Its a great build, but I dont think Id recommend it to a newb.

I'm in the civic camp rally proven, dirt cheap, can make power, easy suspension options. No ridiculous fab work that John suggests any chump can do because everyone in this world has the time, means, and equipment to do fabrication.

I also know of a civic being built to win the national 2wd championship next year... The thing is bonkers. It pushes the rules as far as allowed, I can't wait to see it on stage grinning smiley
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KTurner
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 21, 2017 12:59PM
Quote
dreamsofjvl
I also know of a civic being built to win the national 2wd championship next year... The thing is bonkers. It pushes the rules as far as allowed, I can't wait to see it on stage grinning smiley

which national championship since there are 4 different ones? I also hope it's being built by someone who has been around or intents to stay around and not just go broke and disappear after spending it all. The budget burn out magic act seems to happen far too often.



-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2017 08:09PM by KTurner.
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MattP
Matt Pullen
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 21, 2017 02:06PM
Quote
dreamsofjvl
Quote
MattP
Tanveer Deen up in Canada uses an '02 Acura RSX to some effect, granted he does drive it like a go-kart....

They aren't really the same thing though, 2000 and older civics/integras being double wishbone. And the Deen's have done a ton of work to that car. Its a great build, but I dont think Id recommend it to a newb.

I'm in the civic camp rally proven, dirt cheap, can make power, easy suspension options. No ridiculous fab work that John suggests any chump can do because everyone in this world has the time, means, and equipment to do fabrication.

I also know of a civic being built to win the national 2wd championship next year... The thing is bonkers. It pushes the rules as far as allowed, I can't wait to see it on stage grinning smiley

To be honest over the years I have heard of many, many cars that are being built to win " X " championship or " X " series (insert as required), only for them to either fail spectacularly at the first event or the driver/car combination to not be compatible.

The only way that statement could possibly be valid if it were in the past tense, and made from atop of the podium at the final event of the year with the National 2wd Trophy in the drivers hand.



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
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dreamsofjvl
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 21, 2017 06:14PM
Quote
KTurner
which national championship since there 4 different ones? I also hope it's being built by someone who has been around or intents to stay around and not just go broke and disappear after spending it all. The budget burn out magic act seems to happen far too often.

The only championship that matters winking smiley This gentleman has been racing for a long time. He's in it to win it, and is also a budget master. He happens to be pretty quick too. Of course, things change, nothing is ever a guarantee in life.

Quote
MattP
The only way that statement could possibly be valid if it were in the past tense, and made from atop of the podium at the final event of the year with the National 2wd Trophy in the drivers hand.

Sure. No different than someone saying they are building a Merkur and it'll see stage time. winking smiley

And to be fair, I've met my fair share of bullshitters and I pay them no heed. I've also met my fair share of genuine motorsports people who actually know what they are doing. It's pretty easy to figure out who is who.
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KTurner
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 21, 2017 08:14PM
Quote
dreamsofjvl

The only championship that matters winking smiley

.

CARS then?



-KTurner
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NGTD
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 21, 2017 11:01PM
I endorse the Civic option:

thumbs up smiley

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Pete
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 22, 2017 07:04AM
The main problem I see with Civics is they are ergonomically all wrong unless you're a midget. Eclipses have more useful interior room than they do.

Cars don't drive themselves, and one of the things that makes Golfs great is the driver location and the sightlines.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2017 07:05AM by Pete.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 22, 2017 01:46PM
I think looking at this that it would be a smarter option and it will cost fractions of what any FWD car that would go this good would cost
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F1QmS_1t4oc"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


And it would be fun-er-er to play with during the process of building up

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/F1QmS_1t4oc"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>







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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2017 01:47PM by john vanlandingham.
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Josh Wimpey
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 23, 2017 09:31AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
I think looking at this that it would be a smarter option and it will cost fractions of what any FWD car that would go this good would cost

Fractions? Like 7/8ths or like 9/10ths

Shells cost the same
Cage & safety equipment cost the same
Suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, etc costs the same
Motor costs the same
FWD gears and diff for an mk3 Golf are maybe $2k more than junkyard diff & such for the Volvo and give you real close motorsports ratios



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 24, 2017 06:27PM
Quote
Josh Wimpey
Quote
john vanlandingham
I think looking at this that it would be a smarter option and it will cost fractions of what any FWD car that would go this good would cost

Fractions? Like 7/8ths or like 9/10ths

Shells cost the same
Cage & safety equipment cost the same
Suspension, brakes, wheels, tires, etc costs the same
Motor costs the same
FWD gears and diff for an mk3 Golf are maybe $2k more than junkyard diff & such for the Volvo and give you real close motorsports ratios


More like anywhere from 1/10 to 1/3....
You can type, i know you can so address these known eventual chronic problem areas:

Ring and pinions
LSD
Eventual close ratio gear sets..
a gearshifter than works
Drive axles which are not a constant threat of failure
Rear whatever that does not constantly bend
Rear stub that do not constantly bend.
Rear disc set up consistent with established well known and accepted norms



Put prices up and links and actual availability...

(Josh we shouldn't have to engage in the brand loyalty bullshit snipey shit.. it is demeaning..You know as well as I that any brand and model specific parts unique to one model will cost more than something more common and usable on LOTS of vehicles..The "junk-yard" thing is and always has been a bullshit tactic..Its a red straw hominy strömming man argument.. Whatever box a guy has right now is a used box with a used gear set and a used ring and pinion.. so)

used ring and pinion with GOOD ratios versus............

Real numbers rather than foggy assertions that things cost the same..



John Vanlandingham
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dreamsofjvl
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 24, 2017 10:22PM
Quote
john vanlandingham

More like anywhere from 1/10 to 1/3....
You can type, i know you can so address these known eventual chronic problem areas:

Ring and pinions
LSD
Eventual close ratio gear sets..
a gearshifter than works
Drive axles which are not a constant threat of failure
Rear whatever that does not constantly bend
Rear stub that do not constantly bend.
Rear disc set up consistent with established well known and accepted norms


Am I allowed to play? Honda Civic:p

R&P - ~$500usd
Close Ratio Gearset - JDM transmission, ~$350-$500usd
Drive axles - $175usd each for aftermarket axles designed for extra travel and better wear
Rear whatever bending - All rear parts available aftermarket in aluminum, maybe $500 for the entire rear
Rear stub - non-issue
Rear disc - already comes with

And you get honda driveline reliability, which is to say some of the best in the business. And you can make 200hp for about $1500 in a 1800lb caged car.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 24, 2017 11:14PM
Quote
dreamsofjvl
Quote
john vanlandingham

More like anywhere from 1/10 to 1/3....
You can type, i know you can so address these known eventual chronic problem areas:

Ring and pinions
LSD
Eventual close ratio gear sets..
a gearshifter than works
Drive axles which are not a constant threat of failure
Rear whatever that does not constantly bend
Rear stub that do not constantly bend.
Rear disc set up consistent with established well known and accepted norms


Am I allowed to play? Honda Civic:p

R&P - ~$500usd
Close Ratio Gearset - JDM transmission, ~$350-$500usd
Drive axles - $175usd each for aftermarket axles designed for extra travel and better wear
Rear whatever bending - All rear parts available aftermarket in aluminum, maybe $500 for the entire rear
Rear stub - non-issue
Rear disc - already comes with

And you get honda driveline reliability, which is to say some of the best in the business. And you can make 200hp for about $1500 in a 1800lb caged car.

Nice..Now aside from the truly shitty suspension sounds like a decent bet..
So post the actual gear ratios...and links to final drives..
Decent useable diffs?? Kusco, Kazz? how much really?



John Vanlandingham
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Josh Wimpey
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 25, 2017 07:19AM
Quote
john vanlandingham

More like anywhere from 1/10 to 1/3....
You can type, i know you can so address these known eventual chronic problem areas:

Ring and pinions
LSD
Eventual close ratio gear sets..
a gearshifter than works
Drive axles which are not a constant threat of failure
Rear whatever that does not constantly bend
Rear stub that do not constantly bend.
Rear disc set up consistent with established well known and accepted norms

R&P -- Not-needed if you run the MTS 3-4-5 gears with a stock 3.8x or 3.94 R&P

LSD -- Gripper $1100 http://gripperdifferentials.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=45_26&products_id=71

Gears -- MTS 3rd, 4th & 5th gears ~$1200 http://www.mts-motorsport.com/epages/61752271.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61752271/Categories/Getriebetechnik/Gangpaare

Shifter -- stock works fine with some simple and cheap fresh pieces of delrin

Axles -- The outer CVs are an issue once you make any torque. You can swap to 5-llug everything and run the larger VR6 units. OR, I am working on re-splined hubs to accept the excellend Audi 80 outer CVs with bolt rather than nut. So, either junkyard parts or about $200 solves the problem

Rear beam not bending -- I am not convinced this is a big problem if you dont drive in the ditch all the time. Otherwise, triangulation is as easy as zap-zap as you would say.

rear stubs -- 2 options available. MK4 Golf adapters are available for bolt-on junk-yard parts (see Culbertson) as as mk4 Polo stubs for more $$ (see Chris Zanis)

Rear disc --- What is the problem again? You think these cars with only about 650lbs of weight on the rear wheels needs bigger rear brakes?

Grand total --- about $2600 plus some junkyard bits? I fail to see how this makes a VW anywhere from 3 to 10 times as expensive as building a Volvo.

Meanwhile, in Volvo land, ALL it takes is a whole bunch'a fabrication with free materials that any moron can do in their garage in like 45 minutes right?



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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2017 07:21AM by Josh Wimpey.
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hoche
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Re: Merits of the MK3 Golf
April 25, 2017 02:50PM
For those who haven't been following along, here's the thread with the 020 gear ratio setup Josh is talking about: http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,106961,page=2. The gearset in question is described on page 2 in Josh's quote of Wildert's post. The only real problem with it is the big jump from 1st to 2nd, which isn't really a problem unless you're on one of the very few really tight stages in the US and don't know how to downshift and rev match while braking.

That being said, it's still a pain in the ass to pull a Golf transmission out of the car, and it's pretty easy on a Volvo. Well, mostly. The old PV544's and Amazons have two bolts that you really need a hatch cut into the center hump to get to.

FWIW, Bill Malik just runs the stock 240 rear end setup on his current car. I think he's got different guts inside the axle and probably different bushings, but it's just the stock links.



Self-righteous douche canoe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/25/2017 02:51PM by hoche.
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