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2017 STPR: the flood of information

Posted by john vanlandingham 
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Keith Morison
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 01:43PM
All I'm saying is that if you were insistent enough to get ahead of him that it turned into a confrontation, you'd want to be sure it was the right place to be.
Often I see a LOT of fuss about road position when it generally doesn't mean a whole lot of difference. At Oregon a couple years ago a driver who was on the road behind us unilaterally exited the regroup control early so he could get 'better' road position. (times out were assigned when you got to the exit, so no penalties...) I looked at the scores later and he ended up behind a car that was a fair bit slower than us.
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turoc
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 02:08PM
As i said we didn't care too much about seed but we were concerned with the last real stage being 25miles and one before being 13. It was Paul's first time being in an open awd car besides a stage or two and he is a committed driver. Open class car on a flat out 25m stage had a huge advantage. Another car that knew we were faster offered us to go ahead the stage before and we both agreed to stay where we were and would go infront at start of 13miler. We were putting 30-40 secs on 8miles or so. Thats when the reseed happened. Im not excluding the organizers of being at fault either. It was a poor decision to do reseed when there wasnt even a regroup. We only had 2 or 3 mins to spare to check in at our actual time and were told to immediately go in front of Millen who was a few feet from atc. We also started feeling a vibration at 50mph+ where we had to back off, pull over on long stage and lose 2mins+ which may or may not be a result of the incident. Again, his response was improper when asked about it with a cool head. He wont get that same courtesy again!



rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 02:45PM
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turoc
It was at start of ss12 right before yellow board. He stopped at board we went in and declared our time informing workers we were reseeded which was granted. If it happened in his minute im sure it would have gotten aggresive by both parties with us having to step out. Start of next stage which was the 25miler we asked what happened and his response was obnoxious and silly saying he thought i was waving hello and he waved back and asking us what championship we are running... we were entered regional only and he didnt like that we took away his dust minute.

Ahh... that's odd. All of our interactions with them have been pleasant. That sucks it wasn't the case for you.
I was asking about the runout as it seems a few stages each event have SKETCHY short runouts after the stage.
We came blazing into one at Rally Idaho this last weekend and stopped pretty much NEXT to the car just as they were handing out their time card. We were given a 2min start gap for the rest of the day after that.
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turoc
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 04:41PM
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turoc
He stopped at board we went in and declared our time informing workers we were reseeded which was granted.
I just took a quick look at the results from the event... Considering that prior to SS12 you only beat Millen on one stage (even then, only by 3 seconds over nearly 8 minutes) do you think being reseeded in front of him was Legit?

I just looked at the results now and we beat Millen more than just one stage and more than 3 secs a time. WM stages we backed off thought were at a good pace but lost some time. Even on a stage we lost a bunch of time after car stalling on a hairpin and struggling to fire up beat him by 20secs



rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!
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Keith Morison
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 04:47PM
Quote
turoc
I just looked at the results now and we beat Millen more than just one stage and more than 3 secs a time.
I stand corrected.
I didn't dig enough into the scores online... not a fan of that presentation of data.
He beat you on some, you beat him on others... you had issues, he probably had issues.

In the end, I'm still not sure why this is worth talking about.

The TLDR would be 'rally co-driver annoyed by rally driver with a bit of ego.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2017 04:48PM by Not Trolling.
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hoche
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 06:05PM
Looking at the scores, this is roughly what should have happened:
1) Paulo should have started behind Ryan, based on Paulo's Honda times and there not being much record of Paulo's AWD experience.
2) Ryan ran faster than Paulo for the first three stages. If there was a midday reseed, it should have left Ryan in front of Paulo.
3) Paulo ran faster than Ryan for the rest of the day. Not much, but consistently enough that the organizers should have reseeded Paulo in front of Ryan for day 2, especially considering Paulo beat him on the day by over 27 seconds after being down nearly 40 seconds after stage 2.
4) On day 2, Paulo was won by 2.5 and then lost by 6 and then won 2.8 and then lost by 14, so if there was a reseed at that point it would have most likely put Ryan in front. However, on the next stage Paulo won by 21 so that would have put Paulo back in front. So it just kinda depends on when they did the reseed.
5) It was clear that they were running close enough together in times that they weren't going to be catching each other, so as an official I probably wouldn't have worried about it too much.

I don't buy the argument that "Open class car on a flat out 25m stage had a huge advantage." In fact, by my projections Paulo would have been +/- 20 seconds of Ryan.



Self-righteous douche canoe
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dreamsofjvl
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 07:26PM
Was there a way for them to know that info at the time?

Unless they were keeping track of Millen's times specifically (why would they? Especially if they aren't in the same class and leap frogging cars), who knows. They were told to do something and they did it.

You don't really see the true nature of people until you are in conflict. Sometimes the nice guy shtick melts away. Of course, it could just be heat of the moment as well.
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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 09:38PM
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dreamsofjvl
Was there a way for them to know that info at the time?

Unless they were keeping track of Millen's times specifically (why would they? Especially if they aren't in the same class and leap frogging cars), who knows. They were told to do something and they did it.

No doubt. That wasn't the point of my little exercise.



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dreamsofjvl
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 13, 2017 09:57PM
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hoche

No doubt. That wasn't the point of my little exercise.

Fair enough, I misunderstood the point winking smiley
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Keith Morison
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Re: 2017 STPR: the flood of information
June 14, 2017 02:19AM
Like I said, generally road order arguments are over rated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2017 02:21AM by Not Trolling.
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