Rally Chat
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

WTF NEFR!!

Posted by MattP 
MattP
Matt Pullen
Senior Moderator
Location: Calgary
Join Date: 10/22/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 257

Rally Car:
2002 Ford StRanger


WTF NEFR!!
July 23, 2017 11:02AM
Good of the sport, or follow the rules.

One for definite will help keep rally accountable the other will only drag it back into murky times with accusations of sponsor/team interference.

Rules be rules and EVERYBODY has to follow the same rule set.....



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
dreamsofjvl
Sancho Panza
Junior Moderator
Join Date: 06/30/2016
Posts: 131


Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 23, 2017 11:16AM
Quote
MattP
Good of the sport, or follow the rules.

Apparently the competitors voted and agreed with it. Direct democracy will save rally!

What a bassackwards ruling. I've never seen anything so blatantly breaking the rules. Seen a lot of bending of the rules, but this is straight up ridiculous.

As I noted on facecrack, a codriver who didn't finish half the event (Robbie Durant) is still going to get points!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
MattP
Matt Pullen
Senior Moderator
Location: Calgary
Join Date: 10/22/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 257

Rally Car:
2002 Ford StRanger


Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 23, 2017 11:27AM
as noted on FB, the original starting car body, driver and co-driver all have to be presented at the finish time control, together..... in order to not be classed as DNF.



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Godlike Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 23, 2017 12:13PM
Does it even matter when 3rd place is 7 minutes out, in another class so that he's not competing against 1-2 anyways? A whole hour separating first and last, in only 112 miles. Higgins on 3 wheels, beggartino with no windshield, lots of discretionary calls made all over even up here. 2 guys can rip their rear suspension just about clear off and not get passed lol.
Way way way more right foot will save rally, more more more. It's not the cars, it's not the roads it's the right foot.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
Senior Moderator
Location: Campbell, CA
Join Date: 02/28/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,122

Rally Car:
Golf, Golf, RX-3



Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 23, 2017 12:22PM
So, what happened?



Self-righteous douche canoe
Please Login or Register to post a reply
MattP
Matt Pullen
Senior Moderator
Location: Calgary
Join Date: 10/22/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 257

Rally Car:
2002 Ford StRanger


Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 23, 2017 12:43PM
Travis broke his co-driver on a hard landing, co-driver called enough so TP put a call for another for day 2. Got one and instead of DNF'ing he finished the event and original CD is getting the championship points for the event. Which sort of flies against all the rules.



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
Senior Moderator
Location: Campbell, CA
Join Date: 02/28/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,122

Rally Car:
Golf, Golf, RX-3



Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 23, 2017 01:59PM
Depends. Generally if the stewards OK it then it's OK, and they might do that if it's a medical issue. It's happened to me before. My codriver became horribly sick and had to be hospitalized and we stuffed my crewchief in the car for the second day. It was all OKed by the stewards so I still ended up in the points.

OTOH, at a different event I was codriving and I got sick with the flu. I felt miserable and pulled out of the second day but it wasn't deemed serious enough by the stewards so the guy I was navvying for got kicked from the nationals.


Edit: I checked the ARA GCR's. Section 6.2.3:
The Stewards of the Event have power in accordance with these GCRs to:
...
(l) Authorize the change of driver or competition vehicle;
...

So, as I said, it's something that can happen and be perfectly legit.



Self-righteous douche canoe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2017 05:31PM by hoche.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Not Trolling
Keith Morison
Mod Moderator
Location: Calgary, AB
Join Date: 09/15/2015
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 267



Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 24, 2017 12:47AM
6.2.3 of the GCRs would 'seem' to allow it, but I beleive the intent is for that to be before the start of the event.

If we look to the Rally Competition Regs:
(I've bolded and italicized for emphasis)

2.1.4 Change of Crew
During a national rally, no change of crew and/or vehicle as listed on the official entry form for the event is permitted and, further, the crew member listed on the entry form as driver shall operate the vehicle at all times while on special stages. Switching of duties during stages shall result in exclusion from the event, and the entry shall be recorded on the results as a DNF. Switching of duties during transit sections is permitted. Switching may also be permitted due to illness and if approved by the Senior Steward or the ARA Competition Director. In these instances, the interchange of duties will only be permitted if the co-driver has a lower speed factor than the driver.

That suggests to me that the intent is that once the events starts... no changes should be allowed. But... it is far from clear that is the intent.
(although why would that first sentence exist if it wasn't the intent.)

There is no circumstance I would see where Durant, or the sub, should get the co-driver points.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
dreamsofjvl
Sancho Panza
Junior Moderator
Join Date: 06/30/2016
Posts: 131


Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 24, 2017 10:57AM
Quote
Not Trolling

That suggests to me that the intent is that once the events starts... no changes should be allowed. But... it is far from clear that is the intent.
(although why would that first sentence exist if it wasn't the intent.)

There is no circumstance I would see where Durant, or the sub, should get the co-driver points.

Allan has put in a request for rule change to CARS. I hope it goes through. Whether it is in the rules or not, I am of the understanding that its generally accepted across the world driver+codriver+car must finish the event.

Now what are these shenanigans involving Dave Clark at PFR last year? People are trying to use that as justification for car swapping, but I didn't pay much attention at the time and I assumed it was only for a fun-run or regional points, not national?
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Not Trolling
Keith Morison
Mod Moderator
Location: Calgary, AB
Join Date: 09/15/2015
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 267



Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 24, 2017 12:04PM
Quote
dreamsofjvl
Allan has put in a request for rule change to CARS. I hope it goes through. Whether it is in the rules or not, I am of the understanding that its generally accepted across the world driver+codriver+car must finish the event.
I don't have time to dig through the rule book to see, but I'm of the same thought that the intent is certainly that a change of crew (or car) isn't allowed once the event starts.

Quote
dreamsofjvl
Now what are these shenanigans involving Dave Clark at PFR last year? People are trying to use that as justification for car swapping, but I didn't pay much attention at the time and I assumed it was only for a fun-run or regional points, not national?
I didn't pay much attention either, but I can be fairly certain that they wouldn't have scored in the national for sure, and would have only scored in the second regional. I think he was only let out to see how many cars he could kill in a single weekend.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
dreamsofjvl
Sancho Panza
Junior Moderator
Join Date: 06/30/2016
Posts: 131


Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 24, 2017 12:48PM
Quote
Not Trolling
I didn't pay much attention either, but I can be fairly certain that they wouldn't have scored in the national for sure, and would have only scored in the second regional. I think he was only let out to see how many cars he could kill in a single weekend.

smileys with beer

In other NEFR news...



I know this isn't allowed up north here because I remember Antoine (Pat?) not being allowed to continue at Rocky one year. Is it allowed down south?
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Not Trolling
Keith Morison
Mod Moderator
Location: Calgary, AB
Join Date: 09/15/2015
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 267



Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 24, 2017 01:12PM
Disallowing tricycles is a fairly recent add to the CARS rulebook, and I suspect it 'snuck' in.

The idea is that if anyone else drove past a police car on the road, they would get stopped in their tracks (Think Gronholm at Rally GB a few years ago.) From a PR perspective, specifically when dealing with local authorities, it is better for us to stop this from happening than it is to have local LEOs clamp down on us.

Sadly, it is a slap in the face of the POR mindset.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
dreamsofjvl
Sancho Panza
Junior Moderator
Join Date: 06/30/2016
Posts: 131


Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 24, 2017 01:18PM
Quote
Not Trolling

Sadly, it is a slap in the face of the POR mindset.

I agree.

Its a necessary evil, one that I greatly dislike, but can completely get behind the need for it.

You can bet if I had a bit more resources and a crew waiting at service that I'd do it in a heartbeat if it was allowed.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
Junior Moderator
Location: Portland , Or
Join Date: 08/15/2010
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 1,208

Rally Car:
MK2 VW GTI



Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 24, 2017 01:23PM
The dave clark thing was just for cascadia cup points I believe.
Larry has a history of jumping out of his car so that others can continue. For instance at BW when the rental car their friend was in had an electrical issue, Larry and Gobright swapped with us in between stages. Larry hung out with his grandkids and helped service the rest of the weekend. He just wants to make sure that everyone is having a good time smiling smiley
Please Login or Register to post a reply
MattP
Matt Pullen
Senior Moderator
Location: Calgary
Join Date: 10/22/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 257

Rally Car:
2002 Ford StRanger


Re: WTF NEFR!!
July 24, 2017 01:53PM
Sadly it seems nowadays that most teams when faced with the run for fun/no points example they tend to load up and disappear rather than use it as a very organised test session with no pressure.

Larry and the Clark empire are in fact the exception to this, mainly due to the fact that at PFR they do supply close to 10% of the entry list!

Hold on..... The Clark Empire will save rally..



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login