Tow vehicle???

ok, i am back from the old continent. i had to move some shit around, so i borrowed a Renault Master 2.2dci, 5sp. the whole back of it has a cooling system because i borrowed the thing from my caterer friend. so, the thing is not light to begin with. then, i piled up about one ton of shit inside the damn thing on every one of the dozen trips i took with it. i took that thing on the highway at 140km/hr with no problem. so FUCK YOU and your big ass engines and shit! all one needs is a fwd 2.2dci renault to haul whatever you want...... damn, if only they were in the states.

JB Wrote:
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> ok, i am back from the old continent.
> highway at 140km/hr with no problem. so FUCK YOU
> and your big ass engines and shit! all one needs
> is a fwd 2.2dci renault to haul whatever you
> want...... damn, if only they were in the states.

Welcomer back.
Last time is was in Angleterre, way op Norf, I borrowed a plain old Ford Transit 2.5 diesel 5 speed, not even a turbo.
Towed as well as my Chev 6.2 diesel with its 4 speed.

And I felt a lot better really beating the 2.5 4.

Y naturelmente, the Transit was a lot less thirsty.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
> Welcomer back.
> Last time is was in Angleterre, way op Norf, I
> borrowed a plain old Ford Transit 2.5 diesel 5
> speed, not even a turbo.
> Towed as well as my Chev 6.2 diesel with its 4
> speed.

A 6.2??? Man, that sucks. See, the problem isn't that the Transit towed as well as your Chevy, the problem is that the Chevy is such a POS.

Seriously. GM Diesels are full-on garbagge.

OTOH, I remember fun times in a Ford Powerstroke that could light up all four rear Load Range E's, even at ludicrous vehicle speeds, and it could accelerate exactly how a 4 ton object has no right to.

And still tow a laden car hauler at superlegal speeds and get close to 20mpg.

The price of admission is disgusting, though. (Glad it wasn't mine! )

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Pete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> A 6.2??? Man, that sucks. See, the problem isn't
> that the Transit towed as well as your Chevy, the
> problem is that the Chevy is such a POS.
>
> Seriously. GM Diesels are full-on garbagge.
>
>
> The price of admission is disgusting, though.
> (Glad it wasn't mine! )
Pete, it is a POS but cruising unloaded, cost to coast at 75 mph it gave 20.5 mpg
Loaded to the bump-stops, full of 3-4 Cossie motorsa, numerous gearboxes, a couple of toolboxes, LOTS of steel towing a tow dolly with a Sapphire Cosworth rolling shell also packerd TO THE ROOF, and cruising approx 70, except up the passes 10600 foot! it did 14.5 mpg.

I would love to shove a turbo on it.

And are you sure you're not thinking of the 5.whatever???

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

JB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..........................i borrowed a Renault
> Master 2.2dci, 5sp. the whole back of it has a
> cooling system because i borrowed the thing from
> my caterer friend. so, the thing is not light to
> begin with. then, i piled up about one ton of shit
> inside the damn thing on every one of the dozen
> trips i took with it. i took that thing on the
> highway at 140km/hr with no problem.


It's easy to make things go, but STOPPING or MANEUVERING it safely is a different matter. There's always some idiot on a cell phone just waiting to cut you off. TOWING simply isn't as easy as hauling stuff around in a truck. There's the rub.

If you use a tow bar (or dolly or a trailer with no brakes) your tow vehicle needs to be heavy enough to stop it safely. That means your tow vehicle should weigh more than the load it's towing, and it's brakes should be plenty big enough to handle the combined weight. Your still very limited to carefully slowing down and stopping in a straight line. The faster you go the harder that is to do.

Once you accept that, it's a small jump to the benefit of a small dual-axel trailer with brakes if you can afford it (and have a place to keep it). It can be towed with just about any full size Car, Van, SUV or Pickup. It's just a matter of how you gear it and how fast you want to go. So how important is it, really, to tow uphill and accelerate from 70 mph? And how much do you want to pay for that luxury?

I just gave a chassis to a guy from Spokane who picked it up with a dual-axle trailer with brakes. His tow vehicle was a stout old 350 Chevy Caprice police car that weighs more than his trailer + load. The car is worth maybe $2,000 and his trailer maybe 1,200. He loves it and has no problem on the uphills.

Rich Smith

I've got a '92 Chevy Van, of the 1-ton style, with a 454 (7.4L) TBI gas v-8, and the 4L80E automatic transmission. Not fancy, really, but it pulls my 18' dual-axle (both with electric brakes) trailer just fine.

So far, absolutely empty, I've been able to get about 13mpg with it. The lowest is about 11. Loaded, to the gills even, with an '89 blazer that was only filled half-to the gills, I still got 11. It just gets right around that, loaded or unloaded.

I think with a little better exhaust setup, it might get better, but for now, the price was right (even trade for an 85 half-ton w/ a crappy 305 and slippy tranny).

Overall, I think I'd prefer a truck to a van for towing, because of the hard-to-work-on-ness of the van engine. I was really looking to get a Nissan Titan, since it's Big Tow package puts its GVW only 400lbs less than an F250. Plus, it uses Dana60 diffs, so it would be easy to put a better ratio in than comes from the factory, resulting in a lot better mileage while towing. Plus, it's new and comfortable, and actually has a radio!

--sarge

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---** To be in compliance with the Anarchy **---
Jorden R. Kleier
Baraboo, Wisconsin, USA
1990 Mazdog Protege 4WD
1973

I saw this[/url on the Fling Pu site yesterday and got to thinking, "How much do those used U-Haul's go for?" Surely if one were not inept, one could make such a thing reliable.

Just a thought...

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

rich, you're right, i should have mentioned that i was driving this thing around the little roads in the Alps, up and down the small country roads as well as highways. sorry.

oh and also i should have mentioned that it had some massive braking to stop that thing. after a week of driving that thing everyday i had to reajust to "normal" brakes. the master's brakes felt almost like air brakes. for those who have never driven a rig or bus, air brakes are the absolute best! yeah, that's how these brakes felt.

seriously, i've driven F250's, asstros, 1500's, suburbans, explorers, expeditions, 18 wheelers, buses, body on chassis buses, whatever and i have to say that for towing a rally car and still getting MAD mpg i would like to have a renault master or similar. with a common rail diesel engine of course!

there is no need for anything as big as even a 305!






Rich Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ..........................i borrowed a
> Renault
> > Master 2.2dci, 5sp. the whole back of it has
> a
> > cooling system because i borrowed the thing
> from
> > my caterer friend. so, the thing is not light
> to
> > begin with. then, i piled up about one ton of
> shit
> > inside the damn thing on every one of the
> dozen
> > trips i took with it. i took that thing on
> the
> > highway at 140km/hr with no problem.
>
>
> It's easy to make things go, but STOPPING or
> MANEUVERING it safely is a different matter.
> There's always some idiot on a cell phone just
> waiting to cut you off. TOWING simply isn't as
> easy as hauling stuff around in a truck. There's
> the rub.
>
> If you use a tow bar (or dolly or a trailer with
> no brakes) your tow vehicle needs to be heavy
> enough to stop it safely. That means your tow
> vehicle should weigh more than the load it's
> towing, and it's brakes should be plenty big
> enough to handle the combined weight. Your still
> very limited to carefully slowing down and
> stopping in a straight line. The faster you go the
> harder that is to do.
>
> Once you accept that, it's a small jump to the
> benefit of a small dual-axel trailer with brakes
> if you can afford it (and have a place to keep
> it). It can be towed with just about any full size
> Car, Van, SUV or Pickup. It's just a matter of how
> you gear it and how fast you want to go. So how
> important is it, really, to tow uphill and
> accelerate from 70 mph? And how much do you want
> to pay for that luxury?
>
> I just gave a chassis to a guy from Spokane who
> picked it up with a dual-axle trailer with brakes.
> His tow vehicle was a stout old 350 Chevy Caprice
> police car that weighs more than his trailer +
> load. The car is worth maybe $2,000 and his
> trailer maybe 1,200. He loves it and has no
> problem on the uphills.
>
> Rich Smith

I've seen a couple of these new Dodge Sprinters running around LA recently.
I think they may be based on the Mercedes vans from Europe, since it's now Daimler-Chrysler. I remember my Dad doing the maintenance on the Merc run by a local bakery - they seemed pretty hardy, and were an alternative to the good old Ford Transit.

Dodge - 2.7L In-Line 5-Cylinder Turbo Diesel, 5-Speed Automatic Transmission, 154 hp, 243 lb-ft - sounds a little weedy but it still seems more powerful than the Renault Master you were driving, JB - theres an 80bhp 1.9dCi, a 100bhp 2.5dCi, a 115bhp 2.5dCi and a 136bhp 3l!

They also have quite a high box to them so they would make pretty nice service trucks - in a few years when the used ones come on the market!

http://www.dodge.com/sprinter/

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Nick Taylor.
Knobhead.
Los Angeles, CA.

Nick, I've talked to several drivers for Fed Ex and such, they love them.
It is some typical Mercedes/VW thing (They've co operated on truck stuff since the old LT35, I think this is more co operation.) Rack and pinion, easy access, fun willing motor, not thirsty.
Just wish they offered a manual box in North America.

I rebuild manual boxes, cant with modern automajic.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Those are Mercedes Vans. In fact they are also sold as Mercedes Benz and Frieghtliners in the US. I believe the Dodge SRTs are trailered with the Dodge version. At least thats what i saw at STPR. Quite a few european teams also prefer these as well (Not only MB - similar in size, shape, and engine but from various manufacturers)
I have researched the towing capacity and came across 5000-5500lbs which is kinda low. Another thing that Iwas not happy about was the MSRP

Oscar

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rally gods would turn in their graves if they ever knew Lada's were now part of EU rallying!!!

They are proud of that MB Van.
Freightliner marketed the 'Sprinter' for a few years before it found it's way down to the old Dodge dealership.
They even have the utterly tacky Euro patterns on the rag seats.

I will be putting the 'Mothership' up for sale before long should any of youse alls be interested in it.
For those who are unaware it is former Ralph Cosmides '72 Ford F-600 former U-Haul 20' boxvan with 'Mom's Attic' over the cab.
Dave Clark has driven this thing all over the country, and did so without crying too much.
It had a rebuilt engine in it when I purchased it. I got to do the heads four months later and give it a new carburator. Runs like a champ.
I have given it a New Venture 4500 Five speed transmission as one would find behind a Cummins six. I have rebuilt this five speed too.
It has leather bucket seats and a stereo that 'Bumps.'
Pretty? Uh.....No. Functional? *Check.
I've given it a new wiper motor (Jay did actually), a new heater core and other things that I do not remember.
It has an air compressor under it that will stay there, but I'm keeping my hose reel.
It will not have the gas pump when it gets sold, but I'll hook up the fuel tank on the passenger side to the switch so that one can have 50 gallons with no gauge, flip the switch when it runs outta gas and then run it on the (stock) tank with the gauge.
Tires are in fine shape.
Brakes are too AFIK.
$3000 obo.
John Lane Reach me best at (425)260-7746

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun