Stupid Mustang Question...
Posted by espacef1fan
espacef1fan Adam Escott Junior Moderator Location: Fort Campbell,KY Join Date: 02/04/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 89 Rally Car: Don't have one. |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Some details are cheesy but be-sleeve or not I've told guys for 20 years "hey youse gots it, use it" assuming towers in the back to get some wheel travel, and 5 link.. Of course I'm assuming somebody doesn't get stupid and use a V8. Wheelbase is good, track good, balance can't be toooo terrible with a lighter motor. And; cheap as chips. |
heymagic Banned Ultra Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Pretty successful platform in the hand of Mike Hurst or Mark Utecht. Lots of clips to be had on the net.
All sorts of power options from 4 to the over the top but fun large V8 this car had. Somewhere between 400 and 500 hp . Car could break the tires loose in hi gear at speed. A bit tricky to drive but it dominated most events back east and I think won the G5 championship. Even the little 3.9 T-Bird V8 would pull it along just fine. At 250 hp stock and aluminum the engine isn't very heavy. Just carry a couple extra coils... Tough as nails car, lots of internet available help and parts and cheap! My neighbor just bought 2 running V8 cars for a shade over a grand total. He is going drag racing this year as a retirement gift. |
alkun Albert Kun Senior Moderator Location: SF Ca. Join Date: 01/07/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,732 Rally Car: volvo 242 |
Seems like a decent platform, plus.
Its not the last of some rare model of car, you won't feel bad about pointing it into the woods and gassing it, big plus. You already have one and a pile of part, biggest plus. Change your rally car status from "nothing" to "Moose-tang in progress" ok thats my thought for the day. |
Rallymech Robert Gobright Ultra Moderator Location: White Center Seattle Join Date: 04/27/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,292 Rally Car: 91 VW GTI 8V |
As much as I hate to say it the Mustangs could be ok. I wonder if the bodies are any good. I have heard that American cars of this vintage are a bit squishy. The front suspension is good but I think that one would have to "start over" with the rear.
Robert. "You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli. |
heymagic Banned Ultra Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
I think the Mayhem Mustang had been converted to a 3 link rear with a panhard rod. I'll check with Hurst. El Presidente... ( I see your new sig, congrats!), the bodies are ok. They stand up to lots of abuse in drag and sports car racing. Cage and a bit of seam welding should suffice. In reality most people either build a car like Timm ( it'll last forever in the garage) or they'll take it on stage and abuse it. Most cars have a strong enough shell to last until rolled a few times. Maxda made a very thin sheet metalled car and they worked fine. Sube ain't so thick either. Worst shell I remember seeing was my Ford Fiesta. There were 1/2 gaps in the body panels filled with seam sealer from the factory. Putting the cage in was an education. Dig out the seam sealer on the rear inner fenders and spend the rest of the day welding the shell together.... |
Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
Even in street use the floor-rocker seams like to separate, the rear suspension links flex and crack too. And in performance use the car just sorta starts folding over time, look at a heavily tracked Fox and you'll see the rear quarters are a little bowed looking. 'Course, those aren't caged/welded cars, either. The '79 notches were damned light compared to the later pigs. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Yeah the shells are flimsy but so is everything modern
Mooose-angst is limited in the back, but as i say "add towers" and problem soolved. Adam that means a tube or a d shaped thing miitating the set up in the backa your Xratty. The hardest thing would be resistinga ll the balther about 400 bhp V8s.. Note that on the medium to medium fast roads at rally Idaho, the V8 cars were embarrassed, shamed, humiliated, blown off by some low power pokey little Wrong Wheel Drive econoboxes. They did do great when the roads were basically STRAIGHT. Obviously a 2300 Lima powered car with a very modest turbo who get you all the Beee haitch Peace you need and all the fooot/Lebz too.. And it is a over 150 lbs difference to the stock 5.0 In the wrong place. Soooper Bitching Suspenders could be whipped up easy. (not some fawked up crap for "track', real gravel stuff.) |
espacef1fan Adam Escott Junior Moderator Location: Fort Campbell,KY Join Date: 02/04/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 89 Rally Car: Don't have one. |
That was the main reasoning behind my thought process, that and you can get them CHEAPER than dirt...and wont feel bad smashing ti into things like Alkun said. |
espacef1fan Adam Escott Junior Moderator Location: Fort Campbell,KY Join Date: 02/04/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 89 Rally Car: Don't have one. |
How about using a Cobra IRS to make it more compliant on loose/bumpy surfaces?
I dont know if that would even be legal for any classes. As far as suspension I would think only the steeda 5 link would be feasible.( Or a square beam?...hahahaha) Torque arms are ground clearance limiting and the EvoM trilink is not in production anymore.. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Wouldn't bother. Lookie lika dis: Xratty IS a much better car than say a 240 Volvo or a Mooose-angst, but in reality it hain't gonna make any difference when we put basically identical "fun bits' in 'em. You tube is full of 240s driven faster than anybody in north America, on roads narrower and trickier. All them 240s gots solid. Escort MkI and MkII had solid Ascona and Manta 400s had solid RS240 Nissan has solid. Talbot Sunbeam--yep Fiat 131 Supermirafiori---solid Group B wicked ass beat Celica turbo was some giant truck solid.. There IS sumpin to be said for the wheels being perpendicular to the ground, full contact. Make life easy.. I presume you have a derelict Moose-angst collecting dust? If yeah, fine. If not, hell scare up another Xratty so you have one set of service routines and one set of wiring to memorise every color etc. Now bear in mind all those cars had reeeeally looooooooooooooooooong 4 links in the baddest versions, but that's simple. |
espacef1fan Adam Escott Junior Moderator Location: Fort Campbell,KY Join Date: 02/04/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 89 Rally Car: Don't have one. |
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The Hurst/Utecht Mustang success was a lot due to driver, and the high HP. And the rear was converted from the stock, I am 99% sure. Another V8 Mustang from the midwest (the Hairy Canary, due to it's bright yellow color) was never anyway near as competitive.
I've found weight to mainly be a detriment in tight stuff and loose gravel, so the V8 or turbo 4 cyl decision may be partly decided by what events you would run. Wide, open stages: V8 no detriment IMO. Twisty stuff and narrow roads: I would sure prefer to have the 4 cylinder. I would like to see the Fairmont! Mark B. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Senior Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Depending on powerplat it's pretty much the same T5 I say to put in the Xratty or Volvo so that's easy, but otherwise there's nothing rally specific--except the suspension and you won't find that...except one place. |
Pete Pete Remner Junior Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
That suspension was made so people would quit whining about having a solid axle in Ford's premier sports sedan. It was a checklist item, like how they had to have OHC on their V8s despite not taking advantage of it port-wise, or Dodge has a V10 so Ford had to have it too. Fortunately it used the same pickup points as the solid axle so you could unbolt it and revert it to a suspension that at least sort-of worked. They have cut the BS anymore and they decided to engineer a decent solid axle into the new Mustang, which embarasses machinery costing twice as much.
I see no reason why an Escort four-link can't be done on a Fox chassis. It's only sheetmetal. |
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