Recce notes
Posted by aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson Super Moderator Location: Pendleton OR Join Date: 01/07/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,381 Rally Car: 88 Audi 80 |
Stolen from Chris Duplessis FB page. Is this a common practice for recce? I've never done recce but this seems like an interesting method. |
Grant Hughes Infallible Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
I did this when I drove in 2004, and have given this as advice to newbies since. It doesn't take long, however, until you don't really need it. What's missing is a reference marker on the dash. Regardless, you'll get real consistancy of corner grading using this, which you NEED to be able to trust your notes. It might vary from event to event depending on how you placed the markers on the steering wheel.
First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
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John Vanlandingham Ultra Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Yes very common since all cars have the exact same steering ratio... like the rental road car to rally car, oh yeah.
 John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 01:33PM by john vanlandingham. |
A.J. Johnson Super Moderator Location: Pendleton OR Join Date: 01/07/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,381 Rally Car: 88 Audi 80 |
Michel Hoche-Mong Ultra Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
John Vanlandingham Ultra Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
A.J. Johnson Super Moderator Location: Pendleton OR Join Date: 01/07/2011 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,381 Rally Car: 88 Audi 80 |
Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
The difference in the steering ratios between the recce car and the rally car is irrelevant. Corner grading isn't about how much you turn the steering wheel on stage it's about where the road goes. This method gives you a consistant grading of corners through a single event, or multiple events done with the same recce car and sterring wheel marker positioning. For calibration, when using a rental, I suggest finding a square junction (normal gravel road to gravel road type) and mark that as a two and then just balance out the markers from there. It'll be close, no matter what you're driving, and by the end of recce you'll already know what this event's '2' is like. As I said, you typically won't use this for long as it only takes a couple of events to get a good understanding of the difference between a 5 and a 6 or a 4 and a 5. Doing recce in a car that matches the rally car is great for a lot of things but I've made some really good notes in a F350 4x4 crew cab as well. There was a video about another WRC Academey driver last year that showed the marked up steering wheel on the recce car, so it must be a tool they are being taught or at least something that is common overseas. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
In the end, hill climbs didn't work out that well for him though. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Grant Hughes Infallible Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
John Vanlandingham Ultra Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
The notes job is to give you an accurate idea of the above turn for example. To go around that turn in a car, we turn the steering wheel a certain amount which turns the front wheels a given amount.
In an old 510/Corolla/140 Volvo/BMW 2002 we'd turn the wheel say "this much...2 full turn" In a Golf/900/240 we'd turn the wheel "that much....5/8 turn" In a superior car like the stock rack Saab V4, or an Escort with quick rack 2,2 turns lock to lock, we'd turn it "a skosche" In a real proper car with 2,0 turns we'd give it a little twitch. The turn is where everything starts, then oour eyes see it and we do something with our hands on the wheel turning the steering wheel a certain amount---depending on what that steering wheel input does for turning the road wheels. What Morison is asserting, that it doesn't make any difference, means it doesn't make any difference what the steering ratio is, and thus there is no need for quick racks. Two examples which are not opinions. A 240 Volvo rack moves 55mm for one full turn of the steering wheel. An Xratty rack travels 64mm per turn I do recce with numbers taped to the wheel and come to a corner I move the wheel so number "one" on the right is at 12:00 O'clock and we trundle thru the corner. I do the event now with my Saab and use the same wheel, and I move the wheel so that No1 is at 12 O'clock. I drive into ditch on the inside because the angle the road wheels ended up at is substantially sharper. The number on the rim of the steering wheel was in the same place, moved to the same place, but miraculously the car reacted differently.. Why do people waste the effort fitting quick racks at such expense?? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Read again mi amigo. I've added some bolding and italics to help.
If you're turning the wheel to the 'same place,' you're doing it wrong. Not only that, but the whole steering dynamic on stage should be different. Namely, in mid corner your steering wheel should generally be centered, or straight ahead, in an AWD/FWD car and probably in slight opposite lock in a RWD car. I really don't see where you get that I suggested quick racks were not needed. I said nothing about rally cars other than saying different rack ratios between the recce car and rally car don't mean anything. That's because the amount the recce car wheel is turned is just used to measure the tightness of the corner and the marks just help build consistency within that recce session. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Technically his death happened during recce... First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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John Vanlandingham Ultra Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
never mind, Keith is the expert veteran driver...
Everybody just do everything Morison says and you'll win everytime just like he has since forever.  John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
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