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Wikipedia anti lag article

Posted by Scott Manley 
Scott Manley
Scott Manley
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Wikipedia anti lag article
February 02, 2006 11:33AM
From wikipedia.org-

"As a note, all Subaru Impreza WRX STi (and STI) and Misubishi Lancer Evolutions are equipped with a Misfiring System because FIA rules require complete homogulation with street cars. These cars, however, do not carry the computer or software necessary to activate the system."

I didn't realize manufactures were required to make Homologation specials anymore?



Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37
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Skye
Skye Nott
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 02, 2006 04:44PM
What would an antilag system comprise of other than a "computer and software" to run it. It just dumps more fuel to ignite in the ex manifold and retards timing. Lots of new cars probably have comp-controlled timing & throttle. Sounds like marketing BS to me....

I highly doubt the stock turbo would last 1 rally with all that pop pop popoppopp

PS: link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lag

Skye




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Scott Manley
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 02, 2006 06:58PM
I already edited it. I've heard a stock turbo and exhaust manifold would last less then 50 feet on WRC level ALS. Marketing for sure, If that statement were true under WRC class rules every Focus would be equiped for ALS, eventhough they don't have turbos, apart from the RS. And how does that explain the non homologated STI 2.5L engine. Whats with the extra displacement? Oh that's right it can't keep up with the EVO otherwise.



Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2006 07:08PM by Scott Manley.
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hudson
Andrew McNally
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 02, 2006 07:53PM
Do you think the factory teams care if they are changing a turbo every rally?



Andrew M
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Pete
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 02, 2006 09:15PM
Hmm. Don't modern anti-lag systems just open the throttle plate more at "idle" with severely retarded timing?

We've had computer control of fuelling and ignition timing for decades, all that would remain would be an extra-beefy idle air control circuit... or maybe throttle by wire which a growing percentage of cars have nowadays (would not doubt if it is the majority).

Voila, all new turbo cars are "anti lag capable" from the factory!

Except for that part about digesting valves, manifolds, and turbine wheels...





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NoCoast
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 03, 2006 08:54AM
Depends. Some have a valve to bypass the throttle plate and allow air past. In our Audi, we had a second external wastegate set up on the exhaust manifold. Off throttle we actuated that wastegate and rerouted air from after the intercooler (before the throttle plate) and directly into the exhaust manifold. Combined with retarded timing we had anti-lag AND retained engine braking, which is often lost or severly reduced in more common methods. The problem was the violence. I honestly jumped back the first time it popped. It looked like the windows in the shop were going to explode. I doubt the turbo we were using would have lasted for too long. Absolutely the most violent antilag method I've seen. It was awesome for a short while. We ended up just letting in air from outside. This was for 2004. For 2005, we did a lot different (new manifold, new turbo, new intercooler, etc.) You can see the blue tube in from of the cam cover in the linked picture.
http://www.nocoastmotorsports.net/Audi/wednight.jpg




Grant Hughes
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Scott Manley
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 03, 2006 11:31AM
Exactly Pete.



Scott Manley
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Kirby
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 03, 2006 04:45PM
they last MANY rallies. Ask pat how many anti-lagged rallies his turbo lasted last season.
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Kirby
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 03, 2006 04:48PM
extra displacement on USDM sti's is due to the fact we have crappy gas in north america as opposed to japan where all STi's there are 2.0L so they bump up the displacement in order to stil make the same advertised horsepower as their japaneese counterparts with less boost and timing
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sagsert
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 03, 2006 05:16PM
When I codrove for Julian in the EVO 6.5 the car had Autronic ECU and ALS. It was my job to turn it on at the start of the stage and turn it of at the finish or whenever we had an oooops moment. Granted we only did 3 rallies in 3 seasons and pushed the car about 75 % we never had a problem. I hear he just sold the car with all the spares.

Unrelated but worth mentioning, the last car he sold is the one ACP won Sno* Drift with, very similar setups too. That is one winning car both with Tuthill and ACP.



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Phoenix AZ
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Scott Manley
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 03, 2006 10:49PM
Kirby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> extra displacement on USDM sti's is due to the
> fact we have crappy gas in north america as
> opposed to japan where all STi's there are 2.0L so
> they bump up the displacement in order to stil
> make the same advertised horsepower as their
> japaneese counterparts with less boost and timing
>
> Kirby Read
> Squamish BC
> 1981 Volvo 240


Kirby- the point being is that the homologation arguement made on wikipedia about anti-lag is crap as Subaru is selling a non-homologated engine in the STI. It's all marketing BS. Also I suspect Subaru was just too cheap to but good internals in the engine.



Scott Manley
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Skye
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 04, 2006 12:23AM
Pretty! Is that a tube subframe up front? Fab that yourself?
Is that VRP legal? winking smiley



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NoCoast
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 06, 2006 08:43AM
Legal for what we do. smiling smiley The car owner, Brian Moody, did all the fab work. It's a partial tube frame throughout. You should see it now. He did a fly out at like 80 at a hill climb and trashed that front end. Reworked it and did some design modifications, like making the radiator swing out of the way so you can do timing belt and play with that stuff in like 20 seconds. And a intercooler bigger than most front mounts being used as a top mount now too. We didn't run anti-lag this year at all (well, except for the first half of Pike's Peak). Had a good sized turbo that had little lag to begin with for most of the year.



Grant Hughes
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derek
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 07, 2006 03:42PM
Homolagation for GpN, Subrats have a ton of little detailes to make a good GpN car in the stock car that you buy off the showrook floor. The GpN thinking has even made it into my Legacy as it is cheaper than doing it one way on the Impreza and another in the Legacy.

WRC cars do not have homolagation bits in street cars anymore.

There are many ways to do anti leg and GpN does it in ways that are not hard on the turbos, air plumbing I think.



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Pete
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Re: Wikipedia anti lag article
February 07, 2006 06:56PM
derek Wrote:
>
> WRC cars do not have homolagation bits in street
> cars anymore.
>

I had a lovely "conversation" with some... kid, who kept talking about going to Europe to buy an all wheel drive turbo Peugeot 206. The street version.

Said kid also said that you can't put an aftermarket computer in a newer Sube, because they have throttle by wire. I pointed out that you could always *gasp* mount a standard cable-powered throttle body and retrofit a cable-powering gas pedal, just like the olden days of last century, but the counterargument was: that's completely unpossible because the bolt patterns are different.

Kids these days. If'n you can't bolt it together from factory supplied parts, then it cannot exist...





Pete Remner
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