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cheap rally wheels?

Posted by Sean Burke 
Sean Burke
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cheap rally wheels?
April 10, 2013 10:27PM
While some may spend 4 figures on rally wheels, I don't. Can anyone out there with Beemer experience tell me how/how long do e30 bmw bottle caps hold up on stage? How do they hold up?
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 10, 2013 10:38PM
(relevant to my interests, so what the hell...)
or, perhaps, what's the hot ticket in 4x100 wheels that aren't Braid$, Team Dynamic$, Compomotive$, $peedline$, etc.



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 10, 2013 10:40PM
Dodge Omni wheels yo! You just have to find the stolen set that is floating around.
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 10, 2013 11:03PM
4x100? My escort does 14 and 15 inch wheels in the 4x100 flavor. I'm not up on the fancier knowledge of 'offsets' and all that but cheap and plentiful in both steel and alloy they would be.



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 10, 2013 11:32PM
Quote
darkknight9
4x100? My escort does 14 and 15 inch wheels in the 4x100 flavor. I'm not up on the fancier knowledge of 'offsets' and all that but cheap and plentiful in both steel and alloy they would be.

That's because your Escort is a Maz-dog in disguise.



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 12:46AM
Quote
Sean Burke
While some may spend 4 figures on rally wheels, I don't. Can anyone out there with Beemer experience tell me how/how long do e30 bmw bottle caps hold up on stage? How do they hold up?

I've used e30 bottlecaps but only on Snow... I liked them too much to destroy them on the stages.

However, I have used all VW wheels, bottlecaps/snowflakes/teardrops and those all hold up pretty good. I had got a set of 6 VW bottlecaps for for $70 once! That shit was a steal. If you hit stuff HARD like tree stumps they will bend, but never really had any major issues with any of them. Biggest bend I had on one was maybe pushed the lip in an inch and a half on a teardrop. I was running tubes and didn't break the bead either and still did the last half of the stage AND another stage PLUS a 60 minute transit back to the hotel on it.
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 01:19AM
Don't know about the bottlecaps but if they are like the factory BMW wheels we tried using on Dave Hintz's car they are shit and bend too easy. Bent 6 wheels at Oregon Trail the first time there with the M3.

I second the suggestion for the Dodge Omni wheels, though. They are super tough and hard to kill. I've driven on flats and was still able to use the wheel again. Even with a catastrophic flat they will stay round. I have one up on my wall that I drove 8 miles on with no tire left, on a drive wheel. Lost less than 2 minutes on the stage...
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 07:02AM
I always preferred the ronal r8 as far as OEM vw/audi wheels go. They're probably getting hard to find now, but they came in 14" on some audis, early/mid 80s fwd ones I think. You have to be careful though, some of them are 4x108. I've had 3 sets of them, 13", 14", and 15" and only ever bent up one of the 13" when I went about 7 miles on a flat. I've used vw's snowflakes, too, but I damaged those more often.
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 08:16AM
I second the Audi ronal (multispoke) wheels. Nice thick lips that resist getting peeled back when you shove rocks and wood up in there.

A lot more durable than the snowflakes/bottlecaps/teardrops I was running before them.
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 09:04AM
no direct experience, but my car came with 6 vw snowflake wheels, and I think they're all bent...
The 4 with tires still on are still holding air though...



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 10:21AM
We bent dozens of vw/BMW wheels in the fx and civic. It was to the point that buying the team dynamics was the best bet just so we didn't have to invest any more time in sourcing and disposing of the wheels. The BMW bottle cap wheels were only better than the snowflakes but just barely. Also be weary of the differences of cone and bell shaped lug nuts. Had a snowflake try and walk off on us, that wasn't cool



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 10:30AM
There's a set of 15X7 4X100 Team Dynamics for sale on Nasaforums. Didn't look at them, just saw the title five minutes ago. Probably track wheels though...



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 12:05PM
Quote
slidewayswrx
We bent dozens of vw/BMW wheels in the fx and civic. It was to the point that buying the team dynamics was the best bet just so we didn't have to invest any more time in sourcing and disposing of the wheels. The BMW bottle cap wheels were only better than the snowflakes but just barely. Also be weary of the differences of cone and bell shaped lug nuts. Had a snowflake try and walk off on us, that wasn't cool
Good point, I forgot about the lug difference in BMW to honda.
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Sean Burke
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 12:08PM
Quote
BillyElliot
Quote
Sean Burke
While some may spend 4 figures on rally wheels, I don't. Can anyone out there with Beemer experience tell me how/how long do e30 bmw bottle caps hold up on stage? How do they hold up?

I've used e30 bottlecaps but only on Snow... I liked them too much to destroy them on the stages.

However, I have used all VW wheels, bottlecaps/snowflakes/teardrops and those all hold up pretty good. I had got a set of 6 VW bottlecaps for for $70 once! That shit was a steal. If you hit stuff HARD like tree stumps they will bend, but never really had any major issues with any of them. Biggest bend I had on one was maybe pushed the lip in an inch and a half on a teardrop. I was running tubes and didn't break the bead either and still did the last half of the stage AND another stage PLUS a 60 minute transit back to the hotel on it.
Did you run those wheels on your civic? lugnut issues?
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 12:50PM
Quote
Sean Burke
lugnut issues?

as long as you have the right lugnuts (bell end for Honda, cone for everything else???), you should be good to go.

Hell, finding 12x1.5 Cone lugnuts is easier than the bell-ended ones, at least when you're hitting up your local vatozone.

That reminds me, I need to check what lugnuts are on my new car, and probably get some new ones to run the VW wheels...



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 01:21PM
Cone? "Bell"?
You boys me "Taper" and "ball"?



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 01:22PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Cone? "Bell"?
You boys mean "Taper" and "ball"?

I knew there were better terms for it, but couldn't remember, so resorted to repeating after everybody else.



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 01:28PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Cone? "Bell"?
You boys me "Taper" and "ball"?

Yeah that's what I meant to say, yeah.

If I am remembering correctly the vw wheels required ball nuts



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 01:40PM
Quote
slidewayswrx
Quote
john vanlandingham
Cone? "Bell"?
You boys me "Taper" and "ball"?

Yeah that's what I meant to say, yeah.

If I am remembering correctly the vw wheels required ball nuts

Probabaly. Not sure cause I do poxy tiny spindly widdle 12mm shit on rally cars, but rather manly burly proper 14mm (VW Bus) studs and there the stock VW is "ball" seat..

Pain in the ass that ball seat thing when its only a few bone head OEMs that do it.. A few minutes per wheel with the right countersink and presto you got the same seat in all your wheels...
Made all my SLAAB alloys into taper---they used straight shank and a washer. Just whirrr whill zing and done, hon.

Why you guys still on 12mm studs? You brave?



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 01:54PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
darkknight9
4x100? My escort does 14 and 15 inch wheels in the 4x100 flavor. I'm not up on the fancier knowledge of 'offsets' and all that but cheap and plentiful in both steel and alloy they would be.

That's because your Escort is a Maz-dog in disguise.


Uh huh! smiling smiley



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 03:18PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Probabaly. Not sure cause I do poxy tiny spindly widdle 12mm shit on rally cars, but rather manly burly proper 14mm (VW Bus) studs and there the stock VW is "ball" seat..
...
Why you guys still on 12mm studs? You brave?

I ran 12mm studs on my bug for 4 years, then upgraded to 14mm when I put on better brakes. Never had a 12mm stud brake. Even when my crew guy forgot to tighten the lug nuts and the wheel almost came off. But they were also really good 12mm studs, not cheap shit. And, it could be that my car is super light weight, so that helps.

14mm studs do look great. I don't see how you'd ever break those. If you did, you'd have bigger problems to deal with. smiling smiley
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 03:36PM
Quote
johnhuebbe
Quote
john vanlandingham
Probabaly. Not sure cause I do poxy tiny spindly widdle 12mm shit on rally cars, but rather manly burly proper 14mm (VW Bus) studs and there the stock VW is "ball" seat..
...
Why you guys still on 12mm studs? You brave?

I ran 12mm studs on my bug for 4 years, then upgraded to 14mm when I put on better brakes. Never had a 12mm stud brake. Even when my crew guy forgot to tighten the lug nuts and the wheel almost came off. But they were also really good 12mm studs, not cheap shit. And, it could be that my car is super light weight, so that helps.

14mm studs do look great. I don't see how you'd ever break those. If you did, you'd have bigger problems to deal with. smiling smiley

zackly..
My thought is 2 part: a) 14mm is what all the real rally cars the size and weight of Gp2 is cars and up use so cool smiley if we can upgrade for DIRT FAWKIN CHEAP to a nice stud with a lead or nose on it, we'd have to be crazy to to..

And I just broke a 12mm on my miserable street Xratty---slightly "not really torqued up nuts" and boom..



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 04:31PM
Plus juan on good studs and the correct nut(taper/ball).

Previous yaahoo of my car had thread in studs and taper nuts on oem VW whools. Shady aaass fuck.
Studs loosened the first time I took the wheels off, and some wheels were so bitched up from the wrong nuts that I had a wheel come loose even after switching to the correct nuts...



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 04:43PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
if we can upgrade for DIRT FAWKIN CHEAP to a nice stud with a lead or nose on it, we'd have to be crazy to to..

what's the process for upgrading a hub (that normally has 12mm studs pressed in) to run the 14mm studs? I assume it's gotta go to a machine shop since the holes need to be 'just so'. You can't just plop 'em down on your handy HF drill press, eyeball 'em, and open the holes up with the 1/2" drill bit that's been bouncing around the bench for ages, can ya?

a quick search found the VW studs at ~$8/5, which is definitely cheaper than the ARP studs at $15+/4, but the ARP studs install without any more work than pressing the old studs out.



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 05:24PM
I have always drilled out the hubs using the old drill press. The original hole acts as a pilot. You must make sure that the hub flange stays perpendicular to the drill bit, I use some 2in square tubing or flat bar.

Yes, you could take it to a machine shop, but most charge ~$10/hole or $60/hr minimum. While the accuracy of the bolt holes is important, you could be within 0.010in and be completely fine. Most people forget that wheels are attached to these giant rubber things that aren't even that round! (Though every little bit helps)
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 06:12PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
slidewayswrx
Quote
john vanlandingham
Cone? "Bell"?
You boys me "Taper" and "ball"?

Yeah that's what I meant to say, yeah.

If I am remembering correctly the vw wheels required ball nuts

Probabaly. Not sure cause I do poxy tiny spindly widdle 12mm shit on rally cars, but rather manly burly proper 14mm (VW Bus) studs and there the stock VW is "ball" seat..
John, how does a 12mm vs. 14mm stud affect the seat on the wheel?

Unless you found a VW Bus wheel that is good for rally cars?
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 11, 2013 11:50PM
Quote
fliz
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
slidewayswrx
Quote
john vanlandingham
Cone? "Bell"?
You boys me "Taper" and "ball"?

Yeah that's what I meant to say, yeah.

If I am remembering correctly the vw wheels required ball nuts

Probabaly. Not sure cause I do poxy tiny spindly widdle 12mm shit on rally cars, but rather manly burly proper 14mm (VW Bus) studs and there the stock VW is "ball" seat..
John, how does a 12mm vs. 14mm stud affect the seat on the wheel?

Unless you found a VW Bus wheel that is good for rally cars?

Well the seat is the seat. be it scrawny, anemic 12mm or burly manly man sized 14mm....I was just wondering why guys persist with lame ass junk when it's so easy to use and so much stronger.



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 12, 2013 01:58AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
fliz
John, how does a 12mm vs. 14mm stud affect the seat on the wheel?

Unless you found a VW Bus wheel that is good for rally cars?

Well the seat is the seat. be it scrawny, anemic 12mm or burly manly man sized 14mm....I was just wondering why guys persist with lame ass junk when it's so easy to use and so much stronger.

Yeah all the "rally wheels" are made for 12mm studs and tapered nuts, what am I going get custom wheels made or customize wheels as they bend and I have to replace them?
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john vanlandingham
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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 12, 2013 10:36AM
Quote
sidewaez
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
fliz
John, how does a 12mm vs. 14mm stud affect the seat on the wheel?

Unless you found a VW Bus wheel that is good for rally cars?

Well the seat is the seat. be it scrawny, anemic 12mm or burly manly man sized 14mm....I was just wondering why guys persist with lame ass junk when it's so easy to use and so much stronger.

Yeah all the "rally wheels" are made for 12mm studs and tapered nuts, what am I going get custom wheels made or customize wheels as they bend and I have to replace them?

The decent rally wheels have steel inserts you can just swap out or tap out chase hole pound in.
The bigger question remains. Why haven't wheel "ex-spurts" "strongly advised? Why haven't crews/drivers/teams asked for something we who are half-awake first started doing back in 1987-88?



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Re: cheap rally wheels?
April 12, 2013 10:44AM
Quote
Sean Burke
Quote
BillyElliot
Quote
Sean Burke
While some may spend 4 figures on rally wheels, I don't. Can anyone out there with Beemer experience tell me how/how long do e30 bmw bottle caps hold up on stage? How do they hold up?

I've used e30 bottlecaps but only on Snow... I liked them too much to destroy them on the stages.

However, I have used all VW wheels, bottlecaps/snowflakes/teardrops and those all hold up pretty good. I had got a set of 6 VW bottlecaps for for $70 once! That shit was a steal. If you hit stuff HARD like tree stumps they will bend, but never really had any major issues with any of them. Biggest bend I had on one was maybe pushed the lip in an inch and a half on a teardrop. I was running tubes and didn't break the bead either and still did the last half of the stage AND another stage PLUS a 60 minute transit back to the hotel on it.
Did you run those wheels on your civic? lugnut issues?

I never had found deals on the Ronal wheels for my VW but I was looking. Teardrops you can still bend the fuck out of the inner lips, well really any of the wheels FYI.

I ran a few various VW wheels left over from my GTI on the Civic, I just needed ball seat lugs. Only ran the VW wheels at Sno*Drift 2011, 100AW 2011. TN I was running O.Z. wheels for tarmac and at LSPR I had moved to 100% BRAID wheels. The offset is very close to OEM Honda that it's not really an issue.
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