Rally with a TSD

I think John mentioned to me that rallies have been run with a TSD element added under separate sanctions, allowing drivers to run 1 or 2 of the stage roads as a TSD following the Stage cars on a "closed road" TSD. What happened to this?

The SCCA rally people felt is was too dangerous. Rallys in the North East ran events like this, The Tri State 24 Hour in February of 1982 and a rally John Buffum put on in November or December of 1977 had a few stages. Most of the rallys in the old NEPRO series were a stage rally set up as a TSD with a fast average speeds and check points. A lot of Pro Rally Drivers and Co-Drivers of the late 70's early 80's from the North East learned their craft on events in the All Night Rally Series, NEPRO, MONY, and MG 1000.

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2WD...Less Traction More Action!

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stgallagher
The SCCA rally people felt is was too dangerous. Rallys in the North East ran events like this, The Tri State 24 Hour in February of 1982 and a rally John Buffum put on in November or December of 1977 had a few stages. Most of the rallys in the old NEPRO series were a stage rally set up as a TSD with a fast average speeds and check points. A lot of Pro Rally Drivers and Co-Drivers of the late 70's early 80's from the North East learned their craft on events in the All Night Rally Series, NEPRO, MONY, and MG 1000.

AJ was referring to the story I told him of Wild West 1984. The Divisional did 110 SS miles or twice thru the old Capitol Forest Complex---for a whopping $55 early entry---and the "Monte Carlo Format" did 55 miles of "Regularity Sections"---which just happened to coincide with the SSs....and all did the same transits... Entry was I think $25...
You needed triagles, a tow rope and some sort of helmet..
There were about 22-24 cars in the Monte Carlo part and mid- to-high 40s in the "Real" rally...

About 15-16 of those entrants went on to build and do normal stage rallies..

In the ratio of effort/cost/results I'd say I'd call it a resounding success.

And I cannot imagine why it could not be done more frequently---especially now that we don't have to deal with SCCA which was full of hairdressers, Walter Mittyesque poseurs and pathological prevaricators.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

That was the same deal in the North East but stand alone events. $25 - $50 or so entry fee for a 350 + mile all night rally.
Same tech requirements, needed a helmet only if the rally had stages. 45 - 75 car fields.
SCCA Fucked Up everything they touched. Still do.

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2WD...Less Traction More Action!

As someone with very little money that sounds what's up. LOL.

EDIT: Where can I find TSD's in my area?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 12:42PM by LexusFman.

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LexusFman
...Where can I find TSD's in my area?

There are usually a few different hosts for TSDs, but the biggest is still the SCCA.

Start here:

Find Your Region: http://www.scca.com/about/?cid=44433

Then go here and select your Division, Northeast for NY State: http://www.scca.com/events/

And wow, you NE guys do a lot of TSD rallys!
http://www.scca.com/events/index.cfm?sid=0&r=ne

If you look at some of the other divisions (like Southwest) they do a lot of autocross and club racing and few TSDs. But we also have other TSD hosts other than the SCCA.

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Jason McDaniel

Quote
stgallagher
That was the same deal in the North East but stand alone events. $25 - $50 or so entry fee for a 350 + mile all night rally.
Same tech requirements, needed a helmet only if the rally had stages. 45 - 75 car fields.
SCCA Fucked Up everything they touched. Still do.

You know we all only have only our own point of view as (what we think) we really know....and I know that my life had given me different experiences and the views formed as a result of those experiences were--it had been obvious, different than most people, and especially those who never had really or mentally travelled out of their local area, and who never considered any other worlds.
So when I came to rally I thought , MMMm whatever.
But as was around it more (mid 80s) it sure seemed that there was a huge chasm between "us" guys who were only interested in gravel stage rally, and "the rest" of the car world in USA...
"We" seemed in general to relish the challenge of the difficulties of the format: the difficulty of finding grip, concentrating for longer stretchs, the uncertainty of everything, the need for mental and some--relatively--- just a little physical challenge---mainly the fatigue of driving all night long.

"They" seemed to be accountants, nerds in the worst sense, delighting in minutia of arguing over horribly poorly written rules, seemed from the number of pages in the horrible SCCA magazine devoted to protests, counter protests, appeals some about blatant cheating, some about rules like "Fred Doofball protests Ernie Hoofalump over the use of lock washers under the bolts for rocker pedestals in the Formula V race at Bumfawk raceway.. The Bond was posted and the Formula V of Mr. Hoofalump was impounded and under the scurtiny of Chief Kahuna blah blah bal and Mondo Steward Blah blah the engine was ispected and it was found the washers were not the OEM VW washers......as the rules clearly state "Fasteners are free" and "fasteners are defined as "nuts, bolts, and screws"
As the definition did not include washers, the protest is upheald and Mr Hoofalumps 12th place is revoked and Mr Doofball advances 1 position to 15th place" <------true story, bra.
I knew those people were different....presuming they were people...

And I didn't understood why we needed their involvement
to run our little obscure sport...

I read in the early 90s that Porsche Club of America had more than 3 times the membership of all of SCCA......while SCCA every issure blabbered about "Striding heroically onward and upward SCCA , we go for triumph to triumph attaining record braeking membership yet again!"

Who are they, how did they become so distant from the idea of just having fun?
And of course every one of "them" had read the same few books and "Knew" all we need to do the bring forth the "Big Tine" is a) a movie star, or b) a WRC event, c) TV, d) all of the above "then the big money is going to start flowing"

What cause such mass-maddness?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

^^^ No idea, but it pretty much sucks! I did a few autocrosses in 98' down in Pensacola. That was a pretty cool and laid back group. Later did super laid back PCA track days down in Corpus. Basically, just don't pass in a corner and have at it. Nice long route around an 'X' shaped abandoned runway. Very low cost, no one got hurt, lots of time running at the limit... good deal!
Here in HI there's not much. I considered SCCA autocross just to do something... until I looked at their requirements. It's conducted in the stadium, you have to buy food from official vendors. Bla bla bla. I stopped right there.

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john vanlandingham

"They" seemed to be accountants, nerds in the worst sense, delighting in minutia of arguing over horribly poorly written rules, seemed from the number of pages in the horrible SCCA magazine devoted to protests, counter protests, appeals some about blatant cheating, some about rules like "Fred Doofball protests Ernie Hoofalump over the use of lock washers under the bolts for rocker pedestals in the Formula V race at Bumfawk raceway.. The Bond was posted and the Formula V of Mr. Hoofalump was impounded and under the scurtiny of Chief Kahuna blah blah bal and Mondo Steward Blah blah the engine was ispected and it was found the washers were not the OEM VW washers......as the rules clearly state "Fasteners are free" and "fasteners are defined as "nuts, bolts, and screws"
As the definition did not include washers, the protest is upheald and Mr Hoofalumps 12th place is revoked and Mr Doofball advances 1 position to 15th place" <------true story, bra.
I knew those people were different....presuming they were people...



Bingo.

Not all, but the majority of those in charge of the SCCA have never been a Motorsport Competitor. They may have run an Autocross or a Gimmick Rally to see what the big deal was, but that's it.

A story line from Brock Yates "Sunday Driver" was if you asked a SCCA official / worker to make sure nobody parked a car in a spot for 10 minutes, within a month there would be a committee of 20 with weekly meetings and a 150 page rule book on that parking spot.

I was a SCCA member for 31 years when I bailed. You'd think when someone shelling out $100.00 a year in dues stops, it would raise a Red Flag and warrant a letter to ask why, or see if I was dead. Nothing.

The SCCA powers that be have ruined every great Pro Series over the years ...USRRC, Trans Am, Can Am, F5000, etc, due to a lack of sponsorship and customer knowledge. Even on the local racing level, go to a regional race and half the classes running have only 1 car entered. That's some tight exciting wheel to wheel racing! Same at an Autocross. It seems there are 150 classes so everybody get a participation trophy.

It's no wonder NASA, ICSCC, Chump Car and Shit Box Racing, or what ever that group calls it's self, thrive today.

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2WD...Less Traction More Action!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2014 06:31PM by stgallagher.

Targa Newfoundland has a TSD class that runs behind the full on class. Roads are still closed, yada yada. They have also run a 'demonstration' class for exotics to go and strut their stuff. You may have seen the custom ferrari that went into the water a couple of years ago from that class.

When I was working on the possible 'Targa Canada West' we planned on running a TSD class in addition to the Targa class and had no pushback on that idea from CARS at the time, so I doubt there is a sanctioning problem with doing something like that in Canada.

But... Many of the workers we have out on the stages, in event management or crewing for teams in the service park, are active TSD competitors. That's likely the biggest challenge for the idea. As it stands now, it is really tough to get enough volunteers to run events safely, let alone keeping the knowledgeable people in the key positions.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

I proposed the idea to rally america a few years ago, probably like 5 or 6 years now I guess. I think the reply I got from JB was something like "recipe for disaster." I cited targa newfoundland as an example, too. Maybe since RA has changed hands since then it might be worthwhile to ask again. I could probably dig up the proposal I sent if someone is interested enough.

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Carl S
"recipe for disaster." I cited targa newfoundland as an example, too.

If I recall correctly, we actually intended to run our TSD cars before the final course opening cars for the Targa cars, meaning the TSD cars would be subject to the rules of the road and the TSD would follow the same guidelines for average speeds (10%below posted limits, etc.)

My point was more that it's logistics, not sanctioning, that gets in the way.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

If I had a rally that I was involved with I might actually be interested in the proposal. But I'm not close enough to any of em.

I was more curious as to why it stopped and if anyone had looked into bringing it back.

Anybody have any experience with this software?
http://www.rallynavigator.com/

I haven't played with it yet, just saw it was a sponsor of the NORRA 1000 and clicked to see what it was.

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Grant Hughes

http://www.bajarallymoto.com/ used that software for an event last year. NORRA has, to date, not used it.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.