Olympus 2014

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Thomas Kimsey
Matt's sports analogy probably makes the most sense to me. I see it in a simpler way though. For most of us we play soccer (Rally) and we have a soccer ball (Car). When we want to get better what do we do? We take our soccer ball and we go out into the yard and start practicing. Shoot at a net, miss, make some changes until we start to see that we are scoring more. Sure there are private camps and lessons available but what makes up 90% of practice time? It is going out in the back and practicing.

Most of us don't have the kind of money to be dropping on private lessons. There are going to be sacrifices made because we don't have the top level budget available. If we had the budget sure private tests and lessons all year. But some of us are just trying to put cars together and get to events.

I agree. My points were really from becoming one of the 'best' in a sport, which translates exactly to motorsports.

If you want to have fun, 'ala club rally, then really, does it matter? Are people in tier 1 more likely to have fun in a sport than tier 4? No, likely the reverse based on personality type. Now my only personal proviso on that is it would be nice not to wreck a $10000 car, so if that means some paid instruction to get a 10th closer to that, well than I consider it money well spent. But, everyone can do what they like, and some people may not.

However, of the schools I've been to for motorsports type stuff, they have ALL be cash grabs with meaningful 1 on 1 instruction being minimal. I'd rather pay someone in/who was in the sport to tag along with me on a test day.

Without intending to hurt feelings..the poor ralliest crap is crap. Same as the unwed mother looking for a deal. Too bad, if you can't afford then don't do it. Keep them knees together.

Now I'm not saying one must go to a school, no one is. Sometimes it is the best option. Mr. Kimsey, your soccer analogy, not really. You kick a ball at a net, ok. Doesn't teach you the rules or plays or interaction with team mates. Piddle stuff maybe but you kick that ball at the net and miss. What are the consequences? Ball in street? Neighbors yard? Likely no biggie..lose the ball? Again no biggie, trip to Wally World. Now lets get back to the 2500 lb rally car hurtling along at 70-80 mph and you miss the 'net'...now how about those consequences? Will "I'm too poor to afford a school so I injured someone out here in the woods..sorry" be an adequate legal defense? I think not.

30 years ago is 30 years ago. Today many of the woods roads are closed to public. The ones that are open have much more traffic. Green Diamond is totally gated, get caught in there and you're looking at criminal trespass. Much of Weyerhauser is closed. We're also heading into fire season. We used to go find a dead end road, sweep it and block the low end. Run back and forth a few times then go. Really didn't gain a lot as to education, did help some with settings and mechanical issues. It could work tho, especially if there was a veteran driver who had the skills and ability to educate. If you can make it work safely and intelligently the heck ya!

Now specifically does a 'trusted buddy' have the skills to pass on? I don't know, has 'TB' turned a wheel in anger since wood spokes were the standard? Does 'TB' have any experience beyond one antiquated car? Does 'TB" have any cred (as the kids say)? Does 'TB' have the same skill set , fresh skill set btw, as say Nate Tennis at Dirt Fish? Not a chance.

No one person can be all things to all people...

All of this is opinion, many knowledgeable, seasoned, involved rally people have expressed theirs. Look at the big picture and do the right thing, whatever YOU determine that to be.

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heymagic
Without intending to hurt feelings..the poor ralliest crap is crap. Same as the unwed mother looking for a deal. Too bad, if you can't afford then don't do it. Keep them knees together.

Who said anything about looking for a deal? I said for some sacrifices will be made. This might mean not enough testing time or it might mean using inferior parts or having no spares. It is true that if you are struggling to feed yourself you probably shouldn't be looking at rally especially when wadding up a car or injury is always a possibility. However there is no clear line drawn in the sand that says you must be this rich to rally. With a good budgeting skills and a realistic view of what your goal is, a small budget team is feasible.

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heymagic
Mr. Kimsey, your soccer analogy, not really. You kick a ball at a net, ok. Doesn't teach you the rules or plays or interaction with team mates. Piddle stuff maybe but you kick that ball at the net and miss. What are the consequences? Ball in street? Neighbors yard? Likely no biggie..lose the ball? Again no biggie, trip to Wally World. Now lets get back to the 2500 lb rally car hurtling along at 70-80 mph and you miss the 'net'...now how about those consequences? Will "I'm too poor to afford a school so I injured someone out here in the woods..sorry" be an adequate legal defense? I think not.

Okay now I know for the next time I play soccer DO NOT PRACTICE IN THE BACKYARD! It will teach me nothing about the other aspects of the game and therefore is worthless. Also we can never use the war is a chess game analogy, people might underestimate the extent of the consequences of war because of it.

Ah, I didn't write it well or you didn't read what I meant..sorry. Everyone can make an excuse, that is reality. I didn't say you were looking for a deal...in my business we always get unwed mothers looking for a deal. "Oh I need a tune up on my car but I'm an unwed mother" eye batting and pouty lip. An excuse. You can't afford a proper school, so be it! Rally on and do the best you can. That absolutly has nothing to do with anyone elses situation for certain and everything to do with yours.

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Thomas Kimsey

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heymagic
Without intending to hurt feelings..the poor ralliest crap is crap. Same as the unwed mother looking for a deal. Too bad, if you can't afford then don't do it. Keep them knees together.

Who said anything about looking for a deal? I said for some sacrifices will be made. This might mean not enough testing time or it might mean using inferior parts or having no spares. It is true that if you are struggling to feed yourself you probably shouldn't be looking at rally especially when wadding up a car or injury is always a possibility. However there is no clear line drawn in the sand that says you must be this rich to rally. With a good budgeting skills and a realistic view of what your goal is, a small budget team is feasible.

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heymagic
Mr. Kimsey, your soccer analogy, not really. You kick a ball at a net, ok. Doesn't teach you the rules or plays or interaction with team mates. Piddle stuff maybe but you kick that ball at the net and miss. What are the consequences? Ball in street? Neighbors yard? Likely no biggie..lose the ball? Again no biggie, trip to Wally World. Now lets get back to the 2500 lb rally car hurtling along at 70-80 mph and you miss the 'net'...now how about those consequences? Will "I'm too poor to afford a school so I injured someone out here in the woods..sorry" be an adequate legal defense? I think not.

Okay now I know for the next time I play soccer DO NOT PRACTICE IN THE BACKYARD! It will teach me nothing about the other aspects of the game and therefore is worthless. Also we can never use the war is a chess game analogy, people might underestimate the extent of the consequences of war because of it.

You can kick a soccer ball at a net in the backyard 'til your cleats fall off, has little to do with rally or playing the game of soccer as a whole.

Many of rallied on a budget and did well.



War is not a chess game, worst analogy in the world and even less to do with rally than soccer.

Say didn't Jeff Secor attend Dirt Fish? I deleted my old emails but I think he did.

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john vanlandingham

Adam you cowardly faggot, I see you are too ashamed of yourself to keep your name up when you come to talk shit and troll.

There is a huge difference between typing a pile of drivel---what 99% of everything you've ever posted anywhere I've seen---and talking face to face with a guy on several occasions for hours....
I continue to do much more than you have or ever will in motosport, so keep dreaming that you are somebody and you know something...I am buried with other people project, you know making things for a bewildering variety of cars---and people win events with my stuff...that means I must be doing something right...
But you wouldn't understand that being a simple minded consumer...

Go troll elsewhere Vokes.

So... you're a good fabricator and possibly even a good designer (if trial by fire is a good way of designing stuff)? And how exactly does that in any way, shape, or form qualify you to know ANYTHING about the driving aspect of the sport? You weren't even in the top half of the field "back in the day" when it was more about survival than outright speed. And somehow you think your opinion is valid and qualified to teach about what exactly? Pull your head out of your arse Junior Varsity. You basically don't know shit from shinola when it comes to driving.

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HiTempguy

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john vanlandingham

Adam you cowardly faggot, I see you are too ashamed of yourself to keep your name up when you come to talk shit and troll.

There is a huge difference between typing a pile of drivel---what 99% of everything you've ever posted anywhere I've seen---and talking face to face with a guy on several occasions for hours....
I continue to do much more than you have or ever will in motosport, so keep dreaming that you are somebody and you know something...I am buried with other people project, you know making things for a bewildering variety of cars---and people win events with my stuff...that means I must be doing something right...
But you wouldn't understand that being a simple minded consumer...

Go troll elsewhere Vokes.

So... you're a good fabricator and possibly even a good designer (if trial by fire is a good way of designing stuff)? And how exactly does that in any way, shape, or form qualify you to know ANYTHING about the driving aspect of the sport? You weren't even in the top half of the field "back in the day" when it was more about survival than outright speed. And somehow you think your opinion is valid and qualified to teach about what exactly? Pull your head out of your arse Junior Varsity. You basically don't know shit from shinola when it comes to driving.

Asswipe I was alway in the top half from first event...barring mechanical failures of course.
and the first encounter with pure ice in a couple of Quebec natioanls. Fer chrst sakes you moronic pussy, my first national ever was Rocky mountain and I finsished 7th overall there. Moron.
Last active year was doing Nationals and was always in top 10 and often SS times in top 6-7 and even some 4th OA and even one long and hard SS in Michigan was 3rd only a few seconds behind the National Championship winning Misterbitchi Evo of Henry Bourne Joy III so as usual you're just a moron talking shit--the only thing you're good at../.

And to make stuff that works good enough to win OA today, you have to know what is needed to win---even a retarded 6th grader ought to be able to figure that out...

Further the task of driving a car on gravel is essentially the same task as other sports on similar or same surfaces and if you think otherwise its only because you really have only the most superficial knowledge of driving---if you constant crashes and DNFs wasn't proof enough..We use slightly different tools to accomplish the same effects...
How can you be so consistantly wrong on everything you write?
Only answer is you're either seriously trolling and pretending to be an utter idiot, or fair chance you actually are a text-book case of Dunnings-Kruger syndrome...

Quit making up shit that you obviously don't know a thing about and are too lazy to enlighten yourself about...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
Last active year was doing Nationals and was always in top 10 and often SS times in top 6-7 and even some 4th OA and even one long and hard SS in Michigan was 3rd only a few seconds behind the National Championship winning Misterbitchi Evo of Henry Bourne Joy III ...

Rally Racing News is full of interesting stuff... would this have been the same stage?

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SCCA Press release for 95 LSPR
Joy, whose 380hp, all-wheel-drive, turbocharged Mitsubishi Lancer had a seven minute lead late in the rally, broke the rear diff. mount bolts and then stalled for five minutes...

It appears that the results from 20 years ago-ish are a bit spotty on that site, but what you do find for JVL is:
95 Maine:
30 starters
9th of 18 finshers, more than 18 minutes behind the winner (1:57:41). (about 9.15 sec/mile slower)
1st of 2 gr 2 cars to finish by about a minute and a half. (about .75 sec/mile faster)

95 LSPR
28 starters
8th of 16 finishers, 24 minutes back of the leader (157.72 min) (about 9.6 sec/mile slower)
4th in Gr2 - 3rd SAAB - about 22 minutes back from first in class.(about 8.8 sec/mile slower)

96 maine
33 starters
18th of 23 finishers, nearly 14 minutes behind the leader (115.53)
8th in Gr2, a bit over 4 minutes behind first Gr2.

96 Ralye de Quebec
21 starters
13 of 14 finishers, more than 22 minutes behind the winner. (1:33:08)
3rd in Gr2, about 11 minutes behind the class winner

96 Perce niege
19 starters
14th of 15 finishers, about 43 minutes behind the winner (2:23:41)
4th in Gr2, last to finish in the class, about 25 minutes behind the class leader.

96 Baie
22 Starters
13 finishers
DNF, transmission

But, that'll hardly be a comprehensive set of results and I'm sure there were several other, better, performances.

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john ad hominem
How can you be so consistantly wrong on everything you write?
Only answer is you're either seriously trolling and pretending to be an utter idiot, or fair chance you actually are a text-book case of Dunnings-Kruger syndrome...
Quit making up shit that you obviously don't know a thing about and are too lazy to enlighten yourself about...

Stop attacking the person... Of the things that drag this forum to its knees, this has to be the worst.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2014 11:43AM by Morison.

So how bout them Mariners?

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Racinkid13
So how bout them Mariners?

They don't have a prayer at post season.

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Racinkid13
So how bout them Mariners?

World Cup anyone?

im kinda glad spain is out. id like to see the US get far. Chile looks good though.

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john vanlandingham

I have, and have spoken with him extensively here and out drinking beers...about the very subject of driving, instruction and budgets.

Does that mean you are willing to bestow your wisdom to anyone for the price of a few barley pops?

'cause I got a sixer of PBR in the fridge and wouldn't mind learning more about the mechanical / fabrication side of rally.

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Racinkid13
im kinda glad spain is out. id like to see the US get far. Chile looks good though.

Having the US do well would be good. Especially since it is hard in the US for kids to work towards and reach the professional level since there is no money in it here.

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Thomas Kimsey

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Racinkid13
im kinda glad spain is out. id like to see the US get far. Chile looks good though.

Having the US do well would be good. Especially since it is hard in the US for kids to work towards and reach the professional level since there is no money in it here.

Sad truth. We're in a small town and football rules, not soccer. I used to co-coach U12-14 and in the fall several of our best players would have to attend football practice and do the best they could with soccer. Priorities.

Seahawks tho, wow, yesterdays practice looked like this forum some days

There are around 2,300 professional players in US style football in the world.
There are over 50,000 professional soccer players in the world.

My chiropractor says soccer is the best sport for all around physical wellness. I play three to four times per week.

So far, I missed the Belgium v Algeria match. I have watched every other one. I might have reconsidered committing to Idaho back in February had I realized it was during the World Cup. We had satellite installed for the World Cup (and Premiere League, La Liga, Bundesliga, and Serie A). I might get around to watching Sno Drift on demand and will probably try to catch the rest of the episodes.

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Grant Hughes