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I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!

Posted by BobOfTheFuture 
BobOfTheFuture
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I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
May 28, 2013 01:29AM




Well, If i'm real careful saving my lunch money...



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
May 28, 2013 10:53AM
Very cool.....

Does anyone import MK1's and Mk2's into the states these days?
Seems like just finding some sound,2 door versions with the more pedestrian engine would be the hot ticket and then duratec swap.....

I mean I love me some xr/240/e30/e36,but wouldn't a well driven/prepped rwd Escort pretty much trounce those cars?



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
May 28, 2013 11:56AM
Quote
RALLYRS
Very cool.....

Does anyone import MK1's and Mk2's into the states these days?
Seems like just finding some sound,2 door versions with the more pedestrian engine would be the hot ticket and then duratec swap.....

I mean I love me some xr/240/e30/e36,but wouldn't a well driven/prepped rwd Escort pretty much trounce those cars?

Really it all depends on the spec of which car we're talking.
A shitty mostly stock something (hell anything) against a top spec Group 4 Escort?

Or a say 240 Volvo built with same care and basically scaled up parts (like I use 28" links for the 104" wheelbase 240 vs 23" on the ~~95" Escort) and real motor and especially real box?

We have now 20 years of GruppH and F-cup where we see that spec for spec its the driver and a good spec car, even (gasp!!) some FWD cars with good spec (thinking Kadett GSI and Astra GSI) work fine even against some good spec MkII Group 4 Escorts..Fine, like spankl 'em..

Cause that the other vital thing: Horses for courses.

WHERE? would the imagined match up take place?

Sisteron? En le Ardeche? Alpes Maritimes? Or North America with the wide open perdominantly high speed roads?



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
May 29, 2013 10:54AM
Quote
john vanlandingham

Really it all depends on the spec of which car we're talking.
A shitty mostly stock something (hell anything) against a top spec Group 4 Escort?

Or a say 240 Volvo built with same care and basically scaled up parts (like I use 28" links for the 104" wheelbase 240 vs 23" on the ~~95" Escort) and real motor and especially real box?

We have now 20 years of GruppH and F-cup where we see that spec for spec its the driver and a good spec car, even (gasp!!) some FWD cars with good spec (thinking Kadett GSI and Astra GSI) work fine even against some good spec MkII Group 4 Escorts..Fine, like spankl 'em..

Cause that the other vital thing: Horses for courses.

WHERE? would the imagined match up take place?

Sisteron? En le Ardeche? Alpes Maritimes? Or North America with the wide open perdominantly high speed roads?


Good point.....I was thinking more along the lines of-take one proficient typical North American rally driver out of his well prepared car and put him in a similar prepped RWD escort and run his season in that..including the more open higher speed events as well as the more technical....

I suppose minimum weight rules for the classes would apply,but aren't these Mk 1 and 2's typically a lot lighter than a Sierra or 240?



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john vanlandingham
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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
May 29, 2013 11:37AM
Quote
RALLYRS
Quote
john vanlandingham

Really it all depends on the spec of which car we're talking.
A shitty mostly stock something (hell anything) against a top spec Group 4 Escort?

Or a say 240 Volvo built with same care and basically scaled up parts (like I use 28" links for the 104" wheelbase 240 vs 23" on the ~~95" Escort) and real motor and especially real box?

We have now 20 years of GruppH and F-cup where we see that spec for spec its the driver and a good spec car, even (gasp!!) some FWD cars with good spec (thinking Kadett GSI and Astra GSI) work fine even against some good spec MkII Group 4 Escorts..Fine, like spankl 'em..

Cause that the other vital thing: Horses for courses.

WHERE? would the imagined match up take place?

Sisteron? En le Ardeche? Alpes Maritimes? Or North America with the wide open perdominantly high speed roads?


Good point.....I was thinking more along the lines of-take one proficient typical North American rally driver out of his well prepared car and put him in a similar prepped RWD escort and run his season in that..including the more open higher speed events as well as the more technical....

I suppose minimum weight rules for the classes would apply,but aren't these Mk 1 and 2's typically a lot lighter than a Sierra or 240?

More and more people ARE opting to take that route --since this forum has been around. That includes many who have already done the expensive Blue Subaru route and found the dollar spent to fun ratio didn't tally..

But, aside from Black River Stages in upstate New Yawk and the long lamented lost stages at Cherokee trails, there are hardly any whole events which could be considered "more technical".. There are a FEW stages here and there that are "medium speed" but hardly "technical".....

RE weight , a good MkII Gp4 car is probably around 2100-2200lbs with a spare and a splash of gas--they do add some bigger stuff like Capri's Atlas axle and turrets, links link boxes, sump guard, cage --and the interior is like Capri's, lot a lotta weight..my old Saab--similar interior junk--went up 80 lbs over the street car.....
So say 2150 for the Escort..
A GOOD Volvo n.a. car can be in the 2550 range but that's a bigger motor making good power~~~230 was typical club output in the early 1990s in the North and LOTS of the vital foot/lbs and a lotta kg/m too....Sierra harder to say cause of the variety of engines some of which like that nice Duratec are 90lbs lighter than others--like the Lima 2300...
But my 4x4 Cossie is 2730lbs with 5 gallons and road car seats--but no sump guard.

So sure, the escort--drivn well could be amazing, but I've watched in person the 240s and I was basically shocked speechless how well they worked and how blazongly fast they were driven---and I was at a Regional event..

As for your "take an establish driver..." hang on while I search a bit



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
May 29, 2013 05:44PM
OK here 2008 Colin McRae Memorial Stages. In as nice a car as you could ask for.

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Partner:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UjqsOD8ku2E?list=UUWbGOLAilUYg05dRUAI-OJA"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>video: <iframe width="640" height="360" src="; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


And
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More:
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?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 01, 2013 03:39PM
So would you consider BRS the most technical rally in North America?
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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 01, 2013 05:39PM
Quote
LexusFman
So would you consider BRS the most technical rally in North America?

I don't use that term for describing roads. Narrow and cury...maybe, pissibly..Of events currently running..

Could be the old Cherokee Trails was as narrow and twistier/curvier, never drove it but spent hours looking at maps--with elevation contours.



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 01, 2013 06:29PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
LexusFman
So would you consider BRS the most technical rally in North America?

I don't use that term for describing roads.
Why not?
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john vanlandingham
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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 01, 2013 10:25PM
Quote
LexusFman
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
LexusFman
So would you consider BRS the most technical rally in North America?

I don't use that term for describing roads.
Why not?

It's a vague term.
This is technical:


And this:



This is a curvy twisty road



Here's a famous curvy twisty road: Rest and Be Thankful, Scotland. The first ever "Special Stage" in the RAC Rally , what became WRC GB


Won incidentally by Erik Carlsson in a Saab 96....1960...
And it was they only SS that year just a few miles long.. 1961 had like 360 miles of SS in a 2000 mile route..

Most people like using "jargon" terms.. They become what are called "social markers"

But they rarely convey clear precise information like technical things do..
Here:

http://eng.kaps-transmissions.com/products-ml-evo-vi-ix.html

It has detailed information:





Information that you don't have to be "in the in crowd" to understand...
because since we were maybe 3 or 5 or 6 we knew the words "curvy" and "Twisty"...and they go directly into the brain without any doubts..

That is the same reason smarter people use descriptive terms in the calling out stage or pace notes.
"SWEEP Right" you know what it is, same as "90 right", or "FLAT (as in FLAT OUT or "FOOT FLAT TO THE FLOOR" right and the even faster "ABSOLUTE right----absolutely flat out)

But most people having come into the sport after the fad of hiring young boys began don't know the numbers system was devised to have something to tell these guys who really lacked the years of leaning to read roads or even look at them much..so the see co-drivers blabbering 4 Right 400, and figure they better do that too so they'll be as cool as the guys they saw on TV.

Same reason I would use the word knixiga for twisty or snitsiga or "slick"

only about 10,000,000 people in the world would understand that..

In any case look at the root word:


techno- Look up techno- at Dictionary.com
word-forming element, from Greek tekhno-, combining form of tekhne "art, skill, craft, method, system," probably from PIE root *tek- "shape, make" (cf. Sanskrit taksan "carpenter," Latin texere "to weave;" see texture).

Doesn't even hint of the lay of a road....


FOUR right! still must be processed by the brain---never a good idea with a driver---and related to a vague idea....



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 01, 2013 11:15PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
It's a vague term.

Thank you. I've always thought it was a silly use of the word.

A "technical" road is what? One that is curvy? Fast? Slippery? Varying levels of grip? Lots of turns? Just tighter turns? Blind turns? Some of the above? Any of the above? All of the above? Meaningless?

Tim.
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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 02, 2013 03:48AM
Well, if you look at mtn biking, technical and flowy are two different kinds of trails that can relate to driving.

A technical trail is one with many sections that are difficult, whether they be rock gardens, ladders, root sections, slippery off camber turns, etc. This could be things like lots of tight corners, blind sections, water crossings, surface changes, etc .

A flowy trail is a lot of banked or cambered corners, terrain you can pump to gain speed, its really smooth and fast. These would be the stages like palix where its just smooth and rollercoastery



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 02, 2013 10:38AM
I'll agree with JV on this one. I think the whole technical road descriptive was developed by a slow driver. Couldn't run with the big dogs and blamed the road. Technically it takes a huge amount of skill, balls and well prepped car to go flat out at high speeds on roads also. Anyone can slide a car around an acute corner at 20mph but do it on a sweeper at 90 mph and now you've done something.

If you use the accepted rally term of 'technical' then Ken Block and his lower speed gymkhana shenanigans is the most technical rally driver in the world. Or even worser..RallyX..slow speeds lots of turns.

Every rally has its own flavor, DooWops had a great blend of road types without being a car breaker. Pomeroy has smooth roads with lots of 90* corners and massive straightaways , not a favorite of mine. Idaho has twisty, fast smooth and slippery . Idaho is dearly loved by most competitors, Pomeroy not so much. OT has a bit of everything and car breakers to boot. Nameless will have great roads and smooth to a bit rough. I imagine most people would hate the 'technical' roads that JV and I started with. 35 mph winning speeds at a national, 50% dnf rates. AND no recce or notes .

A fast rally driver will be fast on all types. I'm a quick driver, I had to work to go fast. All depends on whatcher comfortable doing.
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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 03, 2013 05:45PM
Funny that you say BRS, given this was 3 years ago, but one east coaster said, "one good stage and a crap ton of bad ones plus no recce and shitty car breaking jumps on one stage..."

Mendocino looks pretty great. I talk some shit on Gorman, but Michel really put me in my place once when he pointed out that the nature of the roads made the event more of a real rally than most others. Fuck, he's right, the biggest complaint is that it's a car breaker and I was just being a poof.
I have no doubt that Nameless will be awesome based on past performance.
I still have dreams about rallying on the old Oregon Trail stages out west of Portland.
Travis Pastrana once said, "That is the best stage I have ever raced on" about Gilihouey at Mt Hood stages.



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Re: I've finally found a Mk.1 Escort I can afford!
June 03, 2013 09:34PM
Quote
Dazed_Driver
Well, if you look at mtn biking, technical and flowy are two different kinds of trails that can relate to driving.

A technical trail is one with many sections that are difficult, whether they be rock gardens, ladders, root sections, slippery off camber turns, etc. This could be things like lots of tight corners, blind sections, water crossings, surface changes, etc .

A flowy trail is a lot of banked or cambered corners, terrain you can pump to gain speed, its really smooth and fast. These would be the stages like palix where its just smooth and rollercoastery

What we used to call those were "fun trails" and "California trails". Extra points for fun trails if there were sections where you had to hop around with locked brakes, trials-style.

To properly ride a California trail, you had to put your bike on a car that was worth more than the bike, drive the car to the trailhead, put on your luridly-colored Oakleys, eat a Powerbar, drink a latte, then fly around the trail shouting EXTREEEEME while going on about how awesome your full suspension is, even though the trail is so smooth that roadies could ride the thing without coming out of the saddle. Or the handlebar drops.

Disclaimer: When I was big into riding, you could still get high-end rigid bikes although hardtails were more common. I had a double-boinger bike, stuck a rack and fenders and slicks on it and used it for commuting because nothing is more fun on a "Fun" trail than a nice light rigid bike...



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2013 09:38PM by Pete.
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