Were the Group B cars really uncontrollable?

I mean we all know it was dangerous back then, and a few crews straight up died, but was it really due to the pure speed or just the fact that it was the 1980s and it took stones of steel to step into a 500hp metal deathtrap? I know Michele Mouton said on tar the cars were too quick but on gravel it was reasonable...discuss?

Also, if anyone can link me some literature on Group B thats free, I will be really glad.

Watch Too fast to race

Believe what you want..In the passage of time everything has been twisted and exaggerated and ballooned out of all proportion

Just look at the figure you and everybody else says "500 hp monsters"..

Sheesh...
Sensationalism doesn't mean something was true..

So overdone.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I have to agree with John here. In homolgated Group B form, most of the cars were 350-ish. After they left Group B and went to Rallycross, then things got stupid and the 500+ bhp nubmers started floating around.

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Jason McDaniel

Quote
modernbeat
I have to agree with John here. In homolgated Group B form, most of the cars were 350-ish. After they left Group B and went to Rallycross, then things got stupid and the 500+ bhp nubmers started floating around.

And Pikes Peak.. As usual it is totally ignorant slut journalists whop as a class seem never to have heard of the concept of honesty and are either horribly ignorant or simple liars or a combination of the 2 impossible to sort out...

In any case it wasn't the horsepower that made them so quick it was the torque.. The turbochargers I saw back them make todays Holset on a inle 4 look sane...HUGE compressor sides...
Restictors was I think 45mm, and Lancia and Pug had little 1730cc and they would rev, and they had short gearing... I asked and was told geared for about 117-118 mph...
Toruque upp the ass, and revs turned by gearing into acceleration.. AND LIGHT, OMG light.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Featherlight, tuned bigblocklevels o' torque, peaky powerbands, agricultural drivetrains, no suspension, stone age brakes and no computers, what's not to like? Lemme go pee first and gimme!

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Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

Stone-age diffs, so they couldn't turn well, so then very short wheel bases. Add some serious turbo lag and it sounds like a handful. But yeah crazy light weight. The crowds are what were really uncontrollable.












Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2014 08:42PM by alkun.

Quote
alkun
Stone-age diffs, so they couldn't turn well, so then very short wheel bases. Add some serious turbo lag and it sounds like a handful. But yeah crazy light weight. The crowds are what were really uncontrollable.

Diffs same as into early Nuaghties.
Wheelbases around 99"-100" except the misgebürt Audi and 6R4 Rover.

The really crazy things is the "only 3 mph faster average speed" that the same guys in Escort, Ascona, Manta and Fiat 131 Group 4 cars..
Now that's nuts.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

When I watch the old videos the suspensions sure bounce a lot!

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Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.

I'm thinkin the typical B prolly drove very much like my old 323 GTX with around 4x the output. BwwwwwwAAA hahahahahahahaha....omfg

Now where did I put that old kidney belt?

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Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

Quote
Rallymech
When I watch the old videos the suspensions sure bounce a lot!

Most did have good suspension travel.. Those Bilstein you have for the back of your Golf is about the same--except they were magnesium bodies like those I have---and those are long..Soft in a effort to put power down..
The other thing is the tube frame things weren't that torsionally stiff as the Group A cars developed into in very early 90s--basically once the aluminum bolt in cages were banned..
Its a lot harder to get spring and damper rates right when the car squirms around.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I take back my previous statement, Gp. B cars worked pretty damn well, I believe it was other aspects, like how long and difficult the events were, the crazy crowd situation, and just how competitive the sport had become that led to things getting out of control. Like John said, they were sensational, but they weren't that[i much quicker than NA 2wd cars. Things just spiral in highly unregulated situations.

Its also easy to forget how dangerous racecars used to be, for example, F1 up through the 70's.


Also, if I may be so bold, I think what killed Group B was the zeitgeist; the junk bond market was crashing, people were realizing how out of control their hairstyles and coke habits had become, and everyone was pussing out and going to rehab.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2014 11:10PM by alkun.

Quote
alkun
and everyone was pussing out and going to rehab.

More drugs will save rally?

Quote
LexusFman

Quote
alkun
and everyone was pussing out and going to rehab.

More drugs will save rally?

Colorado is poised to be the New Mecca of Offroad and Hashish!

Who knew?

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Parfois, on fait pas semblant!

I am:
I know:
I am from:

Nobody.
Nothing.
Nowhere.

Timo Sallonon said the first GpA cars were harder to drive than the GpB cars he drove a few months prior. He said something like we have no power so we do not dare touch the brakes, we are going too fast into every corner and no power to keep us on the road.

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In the long run reality always wins.