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Canadian Entry Lists

Posted by Anders Green 
Anders Green
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Canadian Entry Lists
September 13, 2015 06:58PM
I heard someone say that CARS had mandated entry lists not be published till a week before the event.

That sounds weird. True?

Anders

Edit: related to seeing this:
http://www.pacificforestrally.com/archives/PFR_EntryList.htm



Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2015 06:59PM by Anders Green.
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MattP
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 13, 2015 07:31PM
Ahh rumors. I've heard nothing to that effect... I do now that with the number of new cars built this year PFR are looking to have an entry in the high 30's low 40's...



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Anders Green
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 13, 2015 08:44PM
Yeah, it was like something I half remembered when I saw that entry list, but other later Canadian events have them up, so whatever I heard must have been for some other country.

Anders



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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 15, 2015 10:12AM
Anders,
Most CARS events post weekly - or significant - updates throughout the registration period. Most, if not all, events are still manually managing entries, with a few using a third party data collection process and manually moving entries to the website. (Rumour is that CARS will be adding event registration functionality to the website in the near(?) future.

What you see in that link is that the 'seeded draw start order' is posted about a week out from the event, which is a different beast than even an entry list sorted by seed. (Although CARS National events are now starting on a speed factor, not strictly seed.)

None of the dates are 'mandated' by CARS. But, entries received after the 'seeded draw' were started at the end of their seed group, so it provided an incentive to get entries in!
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Anders Green
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 16, 2015 07:04AM
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What you see in that link is that the 'seeded draw start order' is posted about a week out from the event, which is a different beast than even an entry list sorted by seed.

Your statment is incorrect. The link I posted:
is the entry list, as I described. It was accessed through a link on the main page titled "Entry List". The title, upon viewing the page, is "PFR - Entry List", and in the link URL is the word "EntryList".

What you are talking about is something different:
http://www.pacificforestrally.com/archives/PFR_StartOrder.htm

Both are blank.

This question was specifically about Canada Morison, I had hoped for more out of you.

Anders



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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 16, 2015 10:05AM
Quote
Anders Green
This question was specifically about Canada Morison, I had hoped for more out of you.
Sorry to disappoint. I thought a clear answer with some background would have sufficed.

Quote
Anders Green
Quote
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What you see in that link is that the 'seeded draw start order' is posted about a week out from the event, which is a different beast than even an entry list sorted by seed.
Your statment is incorrect. The link I posted:
There are a couple of key pieces of information on that link that I saw and assumed you would:
- "as of June 10" should be a hint the list hasn't been updated
- "Start List posted after seeded draw Sept 29" - which is the line I was referring to

But in summary:
- no restriction from CARS on posting entry lists.
- most events are manual updates done when the volunteer is able.

But, the is some interesting discussion to be had in this.

If your event is suffering from a low entry count only a few weeks out from the event is it better to hold that list back so people don't see the event as having a poor turn-out, or are you better off publishing it so people know the event is desperate for entries?

I've seen that being active in updating lists tends to 'help' entries come in sooner.

Thoughts?
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 16, 2015 10:19AM
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If your event is suffering from a low entry count only a few weeks out from the event is it better to hold that list back so people don't see the event as having a poor turn-out, or are you better off publishing it so people know the event is desperate for entries?

I would find it odd that anyone would solely base their decision on entering a rally by an entry list being hidden.

Having the entry list be public is much better IMHO.
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Snidewhips
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 16, 2015 11:02AM
with holding due to low entry spawns a memory of an old tactic nightclub managers i worked for used. when it was a slow night they'd ask we hold the line up so passer bys would wonder what the big deal was and line up. all to the dissapointment of the sheep when they were let in the barn. no other breeding stock to play with.
its totally opposite of what said tactic is but oh the memories of people paying cover charge to be like "WTF!" and the joy i felt pointing the manager out to potential refundees so he could catch a heaping of the shit shoveled on my plate. ah deception, you quirky mistress



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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 16, 2015 02:01PM
Quote
johnhuebbe
I would find it odd that anyone would solely base their decision on entering a rally by an entry list being hidden.

Not exactly what I was getting at. More that some people may not enter an event if there doesn't seem to be any competition out there. (If no-one else is going, why should I? Will the event be cancelled?)

Quote
johnhuebbe
Having the entry list be public is much better IMHO.
Fully agree. I was just wondering aloud if there were any situations that other organisers would see where not posting an entry lit would be their decision.
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NoCoast
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 16, 2015 03:01PM
Where's Canada?

I know a few people that would proba



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webkris
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 29, 2015 03:03PM
http://www.pacificforestrally.com/archives/PFR_EntryList.htm

"Plan on Attending" ?! confused smiley

As an organizer I couldn't write out checks based on that list.
This rally is in less than 3 weeks...

Interesting.
- Kris
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Keith Morison
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 29, 2015 03:11PM
Plan on attending is fairly common with the BC events... When I do my 'head count' lists on the forums it is generally saying that they've directly expressed interest.

With the level of detail in the 'planning to attend' list, I'd be fairly confident they are showing up as they all show that there has been some level of communication with the organizers (changes in cars or co-drivers that wouldn't be known otherwise)
The event may only be three weeks away, but we're also still two weeks away from the close of early registration.
Easily 3 or 4 cars not on that list yet that would definitely be on a 'best guess' list. (Subaru Canada for one)
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webkris
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 29, 2015 03:26PM
Based on that alone - those Canadians really are more polite. smiling smiley

With High Desert Trails - We watch 3-4 teams come and go, and we plan on 10% of the entry list not showing up for the event (based on past performance this seems to hold up). When we're in the +/- 15 teams to break even numbers - this is when I would go into organizer freak out mode (6 entries with 15 possibles).

Very interesting...
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 29, 2015 03:42PM
If the list looked like that the day after early entry closed... I'd be adjusting the budget big time.
Several years ago we had an event that only had 4 entries a week before the event. We killed the banquet in favour of pizza in the lobby of the hotel, and switched from cheap sparkling wine to beer for the podium. The event started 13 cars, and at the time we were using 8 cars for break-even I think.
Trends through each year seem to have been stable, so when the first two events see X entries, then the rest of the season can predict participation reasonably well. The wild card this year has been PFR's move to a week ahead of Rocky (to avoid high fire risk.)
Big White is also a bit of an outlier as it has simply seen growth from year to year, with one regression year I think, and we expect more growth again this year.
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Re: Canadian Entry Lists
September 30, 2015 07:02PM
"Plan to attend" for the BC events is pretty solid. I'm on that list after submitting my entry form and profile for their spectator guide... they just haven't received my cheque yet. So I guess once your fees are in their hands you go to the 'entered' part of the list.

... so 'plan to attend' is more than just a rumor list.
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