Another reason to send $4500 to DMS

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http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/showthread.php?t=178015&page=4&pp=15&hi
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I came across this thread. Wondering who I am speaking with and how
come
you can re-valve our shocks seeing as their are only 2 people in the
WORLD that do it, the factory being one of them ....

Please send me an e-mail at mark@dmsnorthamerica.com, just curious to
see your results, comments, etc !

Thanks, keep on racing.
mark

______________________________


Hi Mark, you saw that huh!?! We can do it but we can't get the shims (I
found out this morning) it turns out since you guys control them (I
will
edit the post, sorry). To be honest we would love to revalve them
because the compression adjustment range is too small and the rebound
increments are too large (50lbs or so per click). They are also less
consistent damper to damper than is ideal. But don't get the wrong
impression we like them fundamentally, they are very stout though and
that's why we'd like to have the chance to optimize them.

We, by the way, is me Paul Gerrard, engineer and pro racer (WC GT
Volvo,
Pikes Peak Unlimited this year, Michelin Test Driver and ex-Skip Barber
Chief Instructor, etc, etc.). The other part is Colorado State
Universities Motorsport Graduate Program. I do development work for
them
and as a guest lecturer, etc. They are also rebuilding my Pikes Peak
car
(1200hp Ford RS200 gto evolution). They have a very sophisticated
damper
dyno (Instron) that can do all sorts of thing normal dynos can't. The
CSU boys corner weighted and aligned half the Rally field at the Pikes
Peak event last year and will do that again this year.

We would love to do development work for you for the Pikes Peak car or
tuner/road racing applications we also have a very high placed rally
client that would benefit from this if you have any need or interest.

Take care,
Paul

Paul Gerrard
Chief Driving instructor
______________________________



Several questions Paul,

How do you know what gas pressures we use ? Shaft out for oil capacity
?
If you do not know these off hand, how do you re-assemble them back to
original spec, or determine your base settings. Lots of trial and error
? I guess it is possible, but I still do not know how (still learning
in
other words) Also, DMS is by far the most consistant from damper to
damper I have ever come across in the past 5 years. I do not know what
measurements you have been taking to make this comparison, but am very
surprised to see that statement.

On another note, I can assure you that we will do everything in our
power that you do not continue re-valving our shocks and marketing it
as your own kit or gain access to our valve kits. Any customer that has
had this done by your or our facility will have 100% of his warranty
voided.

However (on much more pleasant tone of voice ) I am very happy and
encouraged to hear that you enjoy using the dampners and have actually
taken the time to find out more about them on your premise. Which
dampners have you been testing ? There are 3 different gravel specs and
I think you have been working with the older NG stuff as opposed to the
NG2 or NG3 for snow and ice racing.

The rebound increments are large, but that is also part of the reason
we
use the springs we do :-)

I look forward to speaking with you one day,
mark

Mark Moore
Managing Director
DMS North America
t. (415) 462-1575
f. (450) 971-2313
www.dmsnorthamerica.com

-------------------


Thanks Mark, it's certainly you decision to make as far as making the
pieces accessible as it must be part of your business model (the
service
part). As stated in the last e-mail we don't re-valve your shocks but
as
I stated we would like to. I think the inconsistency we see is due to
the fact that the shocks are not getting the service they need at the
proper intervals (because they have to be sent out). It will only
increase the amount of overall business you do and improve the results
you get at the events because of the development you will then allow
(all using other people's money BTW). You are going to or are limiting
yourselves to more "amateurish" teams because bigger teams will demand
that flexibility. This is racing, not OEM, there is absolutely no need
for a warranty, they quality of your product and the event results
should be all the marketing required.

All my opinion of course but your forced control over your product will
stop us from using or recommending them (and we like them) because
there
is always a competitive advantage to be gained by development and the
resulting re-valving.

Regards,

Paul Gerrard
Chief Driving instructor
______________________________


Hi Paul,

New models are being released shortly for higher end teams so that the
amateur guys can stick with what works, and has been proven. I though
you said the inconsistencies were in new shocks, sorry my
misunderstanding. Yes they are designed to fade, so the customers come
back. We have built units before that lasted for ever, but we never saw
the customers ! Trouble is we can not charge more for the shocks to
make
our money, our name is not big enough, so we had to keep the customers
coming back to keep business going. It was a calculated balance if you
will.

-mark

-------------------
Mark Moore
Managing Director
DMS North America
t. (415) 462-1575
f. (450) 971-2313
www.dmsnorthamerica.com

---

Grant Hughes

Now that is what rally anarchy is to be about. Well done posting that.

I have been pissed at DMS since I got to pay some insane fee for 2 little bits of steel shim and they did not even deal with the Customs paperwork from Canada to the US.

I like both sets I bought on the cars but will never buy them again becuse the company is myopic.

They will stay small too.

Derek

---

In the long run reality always wins.

Have you guyse looked at their website. I would say the above statements by their Managing Director could be used against them in a false advertizing suit. Unbelievable.

"Ease of use and Maintenance

All DMS products are designed to be a direct OEM replacement. No modifications needed. No question. Our units are sold to be solid, reliable, and perform as expected time after time. All hardware is included in every kit with complete installation instructions, and recommended starting points for setup configuration. These settings and directions are all available for each application on line under each product description for users to download if a copy has been misplaced.

Being able to provide consistent performance over 5, 7 or even 10 years of use is virtually impossible to do without regular care and maintenance on any performance orientated unit. DMS is proud to be able to offer their customers an alternative with re-grease kits that are user friendly and help extend overhaul times if used regularly. This avoids having to trash an entire unit and replace it with a new, more costly part. Service intervals may vary from user to user depending on driving style and conditions, but it is not uncommon to go 25 or 30,000km before any greasing is needed.

All parts on a DMS shock absorber can be replaced. Inserts, adjusters, bodies, bump stops, springs, or even the internals may be rebuilt at the DMS North America facility. All replacement parts except for internal rebuilds (units need to be sent in for testing and service) are available through your authorized local DMS representative.

Service and Support

Our trained dealer network is able to assist any customer with grease kits, bush and seal replacement, repairs, or replace any broken parts. All of our authorized service centers can perform any installation for any application, alignments and overall chassis setup (corner weighting, ride height, dampening adjustments) to suit individual customer needs.

With every DMS representative undergoing a vigorous training by DMS North America, a complete track side suspension and service package can now be offered. Whether it is a 40mm or 50mm package, all customers are treated equal, and can depend on our proven experience. Our results both on the street and in competitive situations are speaking for themselves, and time and time again DMS is on the podium, or driving enthusiasts to work with ear to ear smiles.

Mission Statement

Street users will be able appreciate the engineering that has been put into the competition 50mm units because their 40mm applications come with the same parts, but in a different enclosed casing to provide a longer life cycle between maintenance, reduced cost, and easy setup installations. DMS has grown as a company offering new products and accessories every months. Testing never stops with new and old teams. Feedback is recorded and acted upon. You speak, we listen.

DMS products combined with technicians who can support them on and off the track truly can provide “The Winning Edge”

We hope to be able to accommodate every customer when it comes time for their next performance upgrade, and invite you to participate in our user forums."

Yes I know 25 to 30Km is only 6 or 7 miles, but..........

---

Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37

I wish I had the business to blow off a potenial customer with a 200K+ sports car.

---

Scott Manley
Spokane, WA
86' XR4Ti
37

My Mazda 323 GTX set did not come with setup pages (well it did but they were blank) and my Golf set requied re-driling the ears and welding the camber rings on in a new place.

Then again back then they only cost $2700, I am sure they have had plenty of time to improve the details. On my second set the shims were installed in the wrong place so when I went to relube them we had to replace both shims.

Derek

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In the long run reality always wins.