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Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*

Posted by Anders Green 
HiTempguy
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
June 05, 2012 03:28PM
Quote
DR1665

You rang? I'm living proof.

And I am too, but in the opposite way.

I live in a room I rent for $600, own nothing of any significant value besides my race car, drive a $50 car and a $1500 pickup. I got an education that was quick (two years) and relatively cheap ($5k per year) that had massive job opportunities and would afford me the time off to race.

I've struggled since graduating finding a balance between sinking ALL OF MY MONEY into racing and maintaining the bills. The struggle is finally paying off.

My activities outside of work involve rally, rally, and more rally, whether that is racing, crewing, volunteering, administering, or arguing with Keith on the interwebs. I do like to do other things, but those work around rally, not the other way around.

As such, I'll probably be a bachelor for life drinking smiley
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NoCoast
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
June 05, 2012 03:52PM
Hey Adam. How many rallyists in Alberta or even more specifically in Edmonton/Calgary area (pretty much Alberta smiling smiley ) work in the oil and gas industry? I know it's HUGE up there, much as it is in my home state of Wyoming. I passed on a $150k+ job based out of Edmonton back in 2006 or so. Just curious as I've thought of Wyoming as a good potential focus for stage events and regional growth due to the amount of expendable income floating around in 19-30 year old single males. Of course, most tie it up in $70k trucks...



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HiTempguy
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
June 05, 2012 04:33PM
Quote
NoCoast
Hey Adam. How many rallyists in Alberta or even more specifically in Edmonton/Calgary area (pretty much Alberta smiling smiley ) work in the oil and gas industry?

ALL OF THEM.

No, but seriously. You have to consider how many people have jobs in other industries due to the O&G industry as well.

Of course, you hit the nail on the head, and I've said this time and time again. People come to rallies, complain about the price when they have a SEVENTY THOUSAND DOLLAR diesel pickup that they daily drive... for no reason. It isn't their work truck, they aren't "manly men" doing construction work or farming, it's just a frivolous waste of money (not to mention fuel)!

If you can convince them to take the smallest amount of their pay and devote it to something, it's worth it. Is it sustainable though? As long as oil is above $80/barrel. As Keith and I have noted elsewhere, 2009 appears to be the worst year for us (2010 was also pretty rough).

I've introduced a lot of people (friends, friends of friends, relatives, etc) to the sport who have no interest in it. In fact, I honestly don't know if I have made a new competitor out of anyone besides my co-driver. Part of the issue is that inherently, you are talking about irresponsible people (why they typically have to work such a crappy job in the oil patch) who blow through insane amounts of cash and have nothing to show for it.

As for passing up a $150k per year job in Edmonton, well that's dumb :p It's not a "bad" place to live by any stretch of the imagination IMO. Then again, some may call me crazy...
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NoCoast
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
June 06, 2012 03:05PM
Quote
HiTempguy
As for passing up a $150k per year job in Edmonton, well that's dumb :p It's not a "bad" place to live by any stretch of the imagination IMO. Then again, some may call me crazy...

I loved Edmonton. The job was based there, but most of the work was in the field in NW territories and mostly during winter. As it was described to me was, find your way to the rig, make sure it's still operating, if not assess it, find your way back out to obtain what is needed to fix it, head back in. I'd just started grad school so didn't take it.

I remember my first friend who worked in oil. He was on the 10 on, 4 off schedule, paid at the end of each 10, around 2k take home. First thing he'd do was buy a case of 40s. During the next few days, we skateboarded, drank, and drank some more. If there were drugs someone was selling, he'd buy. If we wanted to road trip to go skateboard, he'd buy gas, food, booze, etc. By the end of the third day off, he'd usually be broke, at which time he'd retreat to his mom's to recover for a day before going back to work. Unfortunately, he eventually found meth and we were no longer friends after that. Think he ended up in prison eventually.



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HiTempguy
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
June 06, 2012 03:34PM
Quote
NoCoast
I remember my first friend who worked in oil. He was on the 10 on, 4 off schedule, paid at the end of each 10, around 2k take home. First thing he'd do was buy a case of 40s. During the next few days, we skateboarded, drank, and drank some more. If there were drugs someone was selling, he'd buy. If we wanted to road trip to go skateboard, he'd buy gas, food, booze, etc. By the end of the third day off, he'd usually be broke, at which time he'd retreat to his mom's to recover for a day before going back to work. Unfortunately, he eventually found meth and we were no longer friends after that. Think he ended up in prison eventually.

That's a not good story sad smiley Quick easy money does that to a lot of people though!
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john vanlandingham
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
June 06, 2012 04:17PM
Desire is the root of all unhappiness.Buddha



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Josh Wimpey
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
July 05, 2012 05:30PM
Quote
A1337STI
instead of prizes for the fastest teams , we should have start funds for the lowest budgeted teams (lottery / raffle picks for prizes)

The fastest teams usually have the best budgets and a $400 prize means a lot less to a team already doing a handful of rallies , than it means to the team who drove there and raced on used tires. or the team who borrowed gear to get there.

or have series wide prizes spent on who enters the most, not how well they place.

When you're on the podium you need a lot less incentive to do the next rally, than when you are an other of the "finished in the bottom half" I've been in both positions, there's a lot more motivation to do the next rally when have many places to drop in the standings. When you're in the bottom of the standings , with out much hope of climbing up you can look at the next rally more objectively .. Cost vs fun Vs other life expenses. when you're chasing some position its easier to say "i'll pay off some stuff later, I'll put off a new TV , GOTTA DO the next rally ... "


Rally organizers , Try to avoid the prizes for top placing finishers, Try to find a way to give prizes to people doing multiple rallies... parter with other events how about things like

all competitors who enter both NNR and Mendocino are entered into a drawing for a $100 rebate.. Ideas like that , that will help the little guy / newbie do more than 1 event in a year... smiling smiley though money doesn't come from no where... but meh narr... throwing all the prize money on the top few competitors isn't a recipe for big turn outs

Anyone else find Alex's stance on socializing Rally proceeds ironic considering his hilariously uninformed rants against the ACA on SS?



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
July 05, 2012 06:44PM
Quote
Josh Wimpey
Quote
A1337STI
instead of prizes for the fastest teams , we should have start funds for the lowest budgeted teams (lottery / raffle picks for prizes)

The fastest teams usually have the best budgets and a $400 prize means a lot less to a team already doing a handful of rallies , than it means to the team who drove there and raced on used tires. or the team who borrowed gear to get there.

or have series wide prizes spent on who enters the most, not how well they place.

When you're on the podium you need a lot less incentive to do the next rally, than when you are an other of the "finished in the bottom half" I've been in both positions, there's a lot more motivation to do the next rally when have many places to drop in the standings. When you're in the bottom of the standings , with out much hope of climbing up you can look at the next rally more objectively .. Cost vs fun Vs other life expenses. when you're chasing some position its easier to say "i'll pay off some stuff later, I'll put off a new TV , GOTTA DO the next rally ... "


Rally organizers , Try to avoid the prizes for top placing finishers, Try to find a way to give prizes to people doing multiple rallies... parter with other events how about things like

all competitors who enter both NNR and Mendocino are entered into a drawing for a $100 rebate.. Ideas like that , that will help the little guy / newbie do more than 1 event in a year... smiling smiley though money doesn't come from no where... but meh narr... throwing all the prize money on the top few competitors isn't a recipe for big turn outs

Anyone else find Alex's stance on socializing Rally proceeds ironic considering his hilariously uninformed rants against the ACA on SS?

What's ACA?
Linkie to rants?
Are they really 'rants'?
We've talked a lot he didn't seem like a ranty kind of guy?

seems like any opinion now is always a rant.
Or "attack".confused smiley



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Josh Wimpey
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
July 06, 2012 10:53AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
What's ACA?
Linkie to rants?
Are they really 'rants'?
We've talked a lot he didn't seem like a ranty kind of guy?

seems like any opinion now is always a rant.
Or "attack".confused smiley

ACA = Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare

Link to thread he started after try8ing to derail another thread
http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?46083-US-Health-Insurance-discussion-)-politely-tell-me-why-i-m-wrong-thanks

Looks like faux-libertarian "free-market" rants to me --- never-mind the bamboozling that ensues from the private insurance providers

Also looks like the very very tired and easily refuted -- taxes are a form of implicit violence argument is dragged out by Alex

And of course, the general confusion of freedom-to with freedom-from



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
July 06, 2012 02:57PM
Quote
Josh Wimpey
Quote
john vanlandingham
What's ACA?
Linkie to rants?
Are they really 'rants'?
We've talked a lot he didn't seem like a ranty kind of guy?

seems like any opinion now is always a rant.
Or "attack".confused smiley

ACA = Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare

Link to thread he started after try8ing to derail another thread
http://www.specialstage.com/forums/showthread.php?46083-US-Health-Insurance-discussion-)-politely-tell-me-why-i-m-wrong-thanks

Looks like faux-libertarian "free-market" rants to me --- never-mind the bamboozling that ensues from the private insurance providers

Also looks like the very very tired and easily refuted -- taxes are a form of implicit violence argument is dragged out by Alex

And of course, the general confusion of freedom-to with freedom-from

The "he's suppressing me! Help I'm being suppressed! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!!!" argument?

Ah, I see.

You could have just said "The 1994 Republican Health Care" plan.
or the "2006 Republican Romney" care plan..
I unnerstand dat.

taxes are a form of "implicit" violence?

I see the existence of any form of government as resting on an implied right to resort to violence, but that is a theoretical abstraction...

And it is superseded by and therefore trumped by "Corporations are people too". Even if their violence is slower, more insidious and doesn't just damage individuals shot down by police like legal State violence, theirs affects everything from lack of health care to diet, education, all the arts of 'persuasion" to convince people to act and vote for programs in direct opposition to their own interests...
Ever followed the long career of the notorious Koch brothers.. It goes back to the late 50s/early 60s those fuckers have been destroying America.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
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NoCoast
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Re: Lies, Damn Lies, and *Statistics*
July 06, 2012 03:17PM
My favorite US health care experience came just this past weekend. Friday at 3 pm MST we get a call from the hospital saying our insurance company said wife's not covered. We call insurance company, they say fax in documents (Colorado law REQUIRES coverage of labor and delivery) and they'll review them but it will take 24-48 hours but they are closing for weekend right now and holiday so we might hear back by Thursday. So, Friday labor starts, we go to hospital, Sunday morning voila, baby. If you are insured they REQUIRE a two night stay post hospital. If you are not insured they allow you to leave after one night. Thank god since all we wanted was to come home and be comfortable but ethical?



Grant Hughes
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