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Cascadia Cup?

Posted by Aaron Luptak 
Hendo711
Dave Henderson
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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 28, 2013 02:36PM
at the risk of debating the venerable JV, I must put forth my perspective on his perspective. . .

I only started to rally a few years ago, so go easy on someone with maybe a fresh, check that newbie point of view. Before rally I raced a lot of everything, motocross and ski racing as a kid, then off-road and motocross as a vet class racers more recently. I raced a LOT, as you can with motor sports that don't cost $1000/day to run, and when my friends and I did race a lot we fast became part of a community of racers, not as tight as rally racers, but a tight crew,m from the guys battling for the podium to the guys that just loved to get on the start line and finish.

When I started into rally, the community was similar, albeit a little strangely split between the drivers and the co-drivers, it was still a very tight community. What I found quickly, unlike my previous experiences was a community that helped make sure, if possible, that their competitors would finish a rally, spare tire, control arm, sell your old turbo, just so the team could continue to compete, that is a very cool thing that rally has, community. . .

Now, as far as the series (over-rated) debate goes, in my racing past, series were always a great addition to the racing, in fact, it kept the racing weekend(s) alive between the races, as you wanted to check the results, where you sat, who wasn't able to make it, who was, and what races you maybe had to stretch for to make it to, all part of the challenge of the "series season".

The main motivation for this is that we in the NW have no regional series still running, and as Keith points out the series up north may be limited as well. In talks last year with teams after a lot of debate over the state of the sanctioning body of US rally, and their position in the NW, the feedback was clear, a new series was thought to be a great thing for rally.

As racers, we all know what it takes to run a single rally, let alone a series, but we all wanted to run more, but add to that a purpose, a series that may make sense to the many, not the few that can travel cross country, that was the idea. In the last couple years I wanted to set out to run new rallies, and ran Big White a couple times, new rally, new roads, new competitors as part of my community, the newness was great!

From an organizers perspective, a series can only add to the field, not detract from it, it adds marketing value, with a "this rally is part of the XXXXX series" line to add to potential marketing opportunities. I can only assume that Canadian events are stoked when some US teams come north, and likewise for the events in the US, and again, as a competitor, I am stoked with the addition of a few more teams that can run for the class or overall that are new to the rally.

Now, maybe some series are over-rated, sure. . . but most that i have been a part of, if they make sense, add value to the competitor and event, and can be set up to be a plain old good time, now that is a series that has merit.

The group that comprises the CIRC, intend to make this a series that adds competition, filed size and fun times to our community, we hope that the series will get some good response from teams that register, and we are open to feedback once we open the line of communication. The CIRC may start out as a simple series, and may run its course there, but this could manage to become a premiere championship that brings with it sponsors, media, and a championship to be proud of, whether the winner of the overall or the guy that ran end of pack, but gave out a lot of advise on tortoise and hair kind of tactics!!

Grant, would love to see what you have, send me an email at:

cascadiarally@charter.net

Keith, thanks for the feedback, this is the plan, strengthen rally filed, strengthen cometition, make it fun! I do think that every region needs its regional series, but this may be a great add to those that may want to race more than the 4 regionals, here in US or there in Canada!



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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 28, 2013 05:33PM
Few comments from my experience with Colorado Rally Cup...
We had a $50 annual entry fee. Helped pay for stuff like decals, website, etc. I think it was registered as a not for profit or club or something. Don't really know though...

Don't get too heady. We started out as an overlay championship and one particular person started acting too heady and the organizers interpreted that headiness as having lots of money and needing to help them out more and thus wanted money and more money from the Colorado Rally Cup. It wasn't that we actually had money to pay to be there, but they gave off that impression and did so in a somewhat poor way that didn't strengthen relations.

Have a board and have a specific person/people that are well respected and respectful to be the primary person contacting people. If the voice is someone that many in the community have had issues with or don't respect the series will be doomed. There are at least 2-3 examples of this in the past 10 years that I know of. If it's a group effort, one persons narcissism can't screw up everything.

You can use points and money to give emphasis to individual events. With a six event series I'd suggest allowing a drop one and giving greater points to the final event in each country with greatest points being awarded at the final event.

Our scheme had entry points (meaningful and greater for certain events. IE. 10 pts for rallycross, 15 for hill climb, and 25 pts for stage rally.)
We also included one rallycross event per year. One per state or country that gets you a bonus 5 points might be cool. Pick the event so max rally cars show up at one event. Finish order doesn't matter, only entering with your stage rally car does.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 28, 2013 06:28PM
Dave agree in spirit what you're saying but just so baffled over the years how people have used "THE SERIES!!!" as such a constant excuse for lame ass driving. This was the case for decades --until only very recently when there are now 8-10 "spend obscene amounts for nothing teams"..

Many many "National" drivers---just guys who trailered further--- would come out here and get stomped bad by guys like Vern Johnson, and Gene, and Grant Whiting, and slightly later---and not quite as bad--by me and others, and then blab about "We were driving with a view toward THE SERIES POINTS" (oh is that why a rattly garage built cast iron V4 spanked you PGT turbo AWD car?)

So Yeah a "series " is fun and can encourage return entries, and with a little creativity can have some extra spice ( The Washington Mossybacks vs the Portland Hipsters vs the BC Bud-boys vs the Broke Back Boys from Alberta vs Idahoan Spud Duds) but jave to make it low key and not glorify the Series over good single drives...

You may not recall but long time ago SCCA to encourage more people to enter "THE PRO SERIES" they gave away 2 points per start....A friend who should remain nameless had, with help from a lot of people he instantly forgot and ignored, managed to land a big--for the time--$125,000 budget from some Swedish car importer, plus a free 2300 Turbo car and went crazy and didn't think---he was too smart now that he had a big budget---and promptly DNFed virtually every National but had something like 20 or 22 pts.....so their--Silly Car Clown Asses--- incentive meant that a guy with a season long string of DNFs "beat" in "THE SERIES!!!" a whole bunch of guys who won a individual round..
Maddness that a score for the rally of 10 x nuthin beat even the lowliest finisher of an event..

But there you have it... Rallyracing News for the blow by blows..

See? I worry about efforts that are good ideas, and good intentions...
And especially so when so many individual events and who areas like Western WA are in trouble...
My usual Firsts things First--secure events with fat entries of guys in sustainable cars---then one can divert thinking time and a bit of energy to an overlay on the safe and fat dumb and happy events.



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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 28, 2013 06:32PM
Grant! Incentives. Points based on miles driven---win for everybody

100 miles= 1.0 coeffcient
80 miles.....0,8
140 miles...1.4 coeff.



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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 28, 2013 07:08PM
Quote
Hendo711
From an organizers perspective, a series can only add to the field, not detract from it, it adds marketing value, with a "this rally is part of the XXXXX series" line to add to potential marketing opportunities.

That's true... as long as the total is very small. For while belonging to 10 series would in theory be good for THAT event, it would only be possible in a situation where 10 series existed in that area. And that would dilute all of them to near meaningless.

And by "very small" I would opine 2, or maybe 3, total, if one is a totally different scope.

Anders



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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 28, 2013 10:17PM
Quote
Morison
- while the Western Canada Rally Championship WAS strong, it's down to four events this year - from 6 only a few years ago - and the ones that are around are facing challenges from the organiser or roads front. (Entries were strongish)

Down to four, was at five for the longest time, realistically, the series was a 6 event series once, and hasn't been again due to varying issues. This year also walloped us, and you of all people know this Keith, but I digress. The arguments made for our events could EASILY be made for practically any other event. Mt. Hood was cancelled this year. We had serious issues/discussions about the legality of rally cars being on public roads in Alberta, and no radio operators which are the two reasons Cochrane was cancelled as I remember the conference calls and mountains of emails and when the final call was made to cancel the event. Southern Alberta flooded and took out a bunch of roads. The issues are numerous; you and I are both well aware of them.

Quote

- Let the WCRC events fold into Cascadia and you end up with a good series.

Maybe, maybe not. Of all people to make blanket statements, I don't expect that from you Keith. As you know, we made it clear to the organizers of the Cascadia Cup last year that we required more information, and a discussion between RPM and RallyWest was necessary. We never did receive more information. It is hard to commit to something when you don't know what that something is or even who you are dealing with.

Quote

- A good, meaningful, championship ALWAYS helps event entry numbers and gives teams consistent competition to 'fight with.' A championship that would regularly feature Schmidtke, Hendo, Shewchuk, Garth, Decker, Ostrowski, Nelson, van der Poel, Cavett, Cavette, Tabors etc. would be frickin' awesome.

Absolutely... which IMO, we already have and should not be lightly tossed to the side. In 2011 we had 6 entrants do all 5 events and 12 do the best of 4 they needed. In 2010 with 6 events, Hardy and I only did the 6 events. I did not hear a clamouring at the time for more events, because realistically, we do not have the competitor numbers (and virtually nobody has that amount of time to take off) to do that many events. 3 other competitors did the best of 5 required. 2009 is similar. 2008 was better than 2009/2010 for more competitors going to events, but not substantially. 2007 knocked it out of the park. 2012 was also pretty damn good.

In conclusion... who knows? I'm sure the economy has a part to play in competitor commitment to the series. And I am most certainly not against the idea of the Cascadia Cup (as is the whole RallyWest board). But a pretty simple request was not answered, and we've heard no further information since. And if the Cascadia Cup were to simply disappear after 2014, where would that leave us? All questions that need to be asked and considered.
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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 28, 2013 10:51PM
Fully agreed Adam.

The energy followed by silence last year is cause for concern and the lack of some significant details does little to quell those concerns, but...

I get the sense there is some fresh blood behind this and at least one of the ones pushing this is no-longer involved. And, do the Canadian competitors want to see what it is and decide if they want to play along or do they want to be involved in deciding what it is. I get the sense there is still room for discussion in many key areas. That said, there needs to be more talk.



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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 29, 2013 12:05AM
I love this idea. Get the fast folks all together to COMPETE for a common goal. I hope it takes off.



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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 29, 2013 04:14PM
Dave, you have a PM. smiling smiley
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Re: Cascadia Cup?
October 31, 2013 12:27PM
PM's sent to Adam (and an email) and Keith, thanks!!



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Re: Cascadia Cup?
January 24, 2014 04:36PM
NO MORE RUMOR, it is ON!!

The CASCADIA International Rally Championships is proud to announce that it is official, the series is ON, the site is live, teams have pre-registered. . .

The CIRC is a grass roots, international series combining two of North Americas largest rally communities for a cross border championship event series. A group of avid rally teams came together at several rallies in late 2012, and again in 2013, after several teams pointed out that, with only one western based US national rally, the logistics to run the national series is nearly cost and travel prohibitive. After continued discussions with several regional teams from both the US and Western Canada, it became clear to see that as strong as the rally communities are in the region, a true international series could be easy to form. It was understood that based on the strengths of the combined regions, the field size for these rallies could become competitive with national rallies.

For 2014 the CIRC will take place at the following rallies, in a best 9 of 11 day format:

Oregon Trail Rally, May3-5, 2 day event with Friday Super Special POWER STAGEs at Portland International Raceway, Oregon, US

Olympus Rally, May or June, 2 day event, Washington, US

Idaho Rally, June, 2 day event, Idaho, US

Pacific Forest Rally, 2 day event, BC, Canada

Rocky Mountain Rally, 2 day event, BC, Canada

Big White Rally, 1 Day series final, BC, Canada

So, on the eve of the opening round of the Rally America Championships, we invite you to check out the website at:

http://cascadiairc.com

Registration will now take place from the site, and questions can be sent to:

cascadiarally@charter.net



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Where the teams of Cascadia, NW US and Western Canada, go to battle!

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Re: Cascadia Cup?
January 24, 2014 05:00PM
dIN'T WE JUST TALK ABOUIT A NAME AND A REAL LOCATION AND THAT A PHONE NUMBER WOULD BE SMART?



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Re: Cascadia Cup?
January 24, 2014 05:15PM
No, we didn't talk about a phone number and a location, email is kinda convenient, and if someone wants to talk on the phone, email us. We don't have an office, or a building, or a dedicated phone number, like Rally America, but we definitely don't want to be compared with that show. . .



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Where the teams of Cascadia, NW US and Western Canada, go to battle!

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cascadiarally at charter dot net

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https://www.facebook.com/CascadiaRallyChampionship
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