First JVAB Soooper Bitchin 50mm Struts ready to ship

Hey JVL - still haven't heard from the swede boys on those top mounts ? U?

vbares Wrote:
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> Hey JVL - still haven't heard from the swede boys
> on those top mounts ? U?

Just re-sent a note and cc-ed it to you and to Graham's girlfriend too.
Damn.
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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> vbares Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Hey JVL - still haven't heard from the swede
> boys
> > on those top mounts ? U?
>
> Just re-sent a note and cc-ed it to you and to
> Graham's girlfriend too.
> Damn.
> >

GUY WROTE BACK AND CC-ED YOU SAYS WHEN HE STARTED TO PACK EVERYTHING, HE SAW HE WAS MISSING SOMETHING SO HE'LL HAVE IT READY TO SHIP ON mONDAY AND WILL INCLUDE A TRACKING NUMBER.
>
>
>
>
> John Vanlandingham
> Sleezattle, WA, USA
>
> Vive le Prole-le-ralliat
>
> www.jvab.f4.ca

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

shweet !! Can't wait...

I'm curious to see these topmounts you guys are getting!

Here's a piccy - btw, I'm shooting for TP - any chance you are available?

Oh... those mounts... I've seen those (or something nearly identical, but a blue anodizing) coming out of Europe. The guys on the S2 forum aren't overly impressed with them, and I believe a few people in the US have had sets shipped... and problems have come up. Basically, the spherical bearing just isn't up to the weight of these cars (4kq isn't as bad as the 90q). Even on street/track cars, guys were having bearings wear out and clunk.

Can't find all the posts...
http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15004
http://www.s2forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15557

Mance (VAP on Audiworld... ManceMounts, ProMounts, Mountsavers, etc)... he originally designed a solid mount similar to this... bolted to the strut tower, used a spherical bearing. He was able to use one large enough, and find just the right specs, that after a few sets wearing out (he fixed them at no cost), the remaining sets (not many were made) are still on the road. Thats what brought on his whole mount-saver inserts for the stock Audi topmounts... and then the "promounts" that replaced the shitty linear bearing in the OE mount with a spherical bearing, and incorporated his previous work on the mount-saver inserts.

The ProMounts are what I'm gonna be running in my 90q... benefits of a spherical bearing, OE mount (best out there... strongest rubber, etc), mountsaver (to prevent the OE mount from compressing as they always do). Tim Oniel's rally school 4kq's are running these too... with seriously beafy springs (carrying 3-4 people in the car). Used to be constantly replacing the OE mounts... they haven't had a single problem with the promounts yet. You would need to verify with Mance that the bearing face that matches up with the spring tophat will work with the coilovers that JFAB built.


As for Pines availability... not sure. My car won't be ready for it... trying to convince a buddy to drive in it (I would co-drive), and potentially another friend is running his STi, with me as service cheif.

Damn ! Another forum to join ;p

It was an interesting read - these are from a Swedish dude (Furans). Originally, I was referred to this guy by another Swedish rally guy with a 4000 (motorgeek) that really liked the product.

I guess I won't know until they come in, get them on the car and beat-em for a bit. I'm sure TP will be a good testing ground for them.

Thanks for the info - very useful - and certainly a great heads-up on what to look for. Had no idea there were several folks making the same design...wonder who stole who's idea

From looking at the Audi Sport pictures - they also used the stock top mounts, which I thought was curious. In the end, Mance may really have the right idea - unfortunately, prior to searching out the hard mounts - I'd sent him an email - but never heard back - so I assumed he no longer produced or dealt in them...shame really.

The good news is I'm learning - but no matter where it comes from education cost money Maybe I should just get a Subaru, where everythings already been worked out - and I don't even have to think anymore - NOT!!

As for contacting Mance and getting his solid mounts... you don't need solid mounts. He is currently testing a new version of his promounts, which use an aluminium and urethane mountsaver insert rather than the cast urethane mancemount insert. He likes them. Warrantees his stuff for life... track or street. If you wreck a pair of his promounts (either the bearing, or the actual rubber mount), even if it's installed on a rally car... he will replace them at no cost.

I can let you know in a few weeks how the promounts feel on my 90q... I'll be running higher spring rates than you... currently putting 500lb front and 450lb rear... based on some suggestions from other Audi rally guys. No caged in the car yet... just itching to get it back on the road, and waiting till we finish the shop to put the turbo engine in and bend up the cage. Roof trusses went on this weekend!

dtompsett Wrote:
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>
> I can let you know in a few weeks how the
> promounts feel on my 90q... I'll be running higher
> spring rates than you... currently putting 500lb
> front and 450lb rear... based on some suggestions
> from other Audi rally guys. No caged in the car
> yet... just itching to get it back on the road,
> and waiting till we finish the shop to put the
> turbo engine in and bend up the cage. Roof
> trusses went on this weekend!

What dampers, what travel, what spring length??
Just curious.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Dampers are Audi UrS4 Bilstein Sport inserts (P36-0369 front... UrS4, V8 quattro, etc)... Front strut inserts fit the rear of the 90q requiring only the coilover tophat to be the correct ID to match the top of the strut... will fit the OE mounts I believe, but I am running modified mounts with a spherical bearing. Front strut inserts will also fit the front of the 90q, but require the strut housings to be modified by cutting off the swaggered tube end and a larger matching dia machined tube to be welded on. Stiffens up the back, helps eliminate some of the understeer tendancy.

Sticking with the stock valving for now. Travel is ~5" on the dampener... factor in it's position relative to the wheel/hub. Springs are 10" in length... 500lb front, 450lb rear. James Bufkin (owns one of the original quattro rally cars) estimated 750lb front and 500lb+ rear. Similar numbers for other variants of works cars that I came across, and that fellow audi rally guys advised me on. I went slightly softer... cause... I like my kidneys, I plan to drive on the street, and I can always try softer or stiffer.

I had originally planned on 300lb front/275lb rear, even bought nice new eibach springs... and was then told that they were way too soft (people finally got me hard numbers).

Just got this email an hour ago:
Michael wrote:

> Allt är skickat i dag.
>
> Mvh Furan.
>
>
> ----- Ori
>
Says "all is sent today
With Freindly greetings,
Furan"

Keep your eyes peeled for the mailman!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Tremblin w/anticipation :0

Package came in yesterday!

Thank you.

Will put pic's up as soon as we have it all together...

Ok - here is the finished product...

Fronts, 1 degree negative camber, 1/16 toe out. Rears .5 degree negative camber, zero toe.

Custom front and rear adjustable a-arms. Using stock bushings, replaceable, 3/4" studs (from a rock crawler fab crew in AZ). Very stout indeed. Tubes welded directly to tube ends for the 3/4" studs.

SKF (GEH 20 C) spherical bearing inside, Sooper Bitching (ok swedish) hard top mounts.

Next will be some testing to make sure everything remains aligned - put some hurt on da whole thing prior to Tall Pines.

piccies below...

Had I to do it again - I would modify the ears on the JVAB SOOOOPER BITCHIN rather than go with the adjustable lower control arms (which I may still do).

Things I learned:
1. The arc that the lower control arm acts on is very shallow and it takes LOTS of outward adjustment to affect degrees of camber.
2. Lots of adjustment in that arc will make your half-shafts need to be streeetched (or use a shaft spacers).
3. Ovaling the holes in the ears tends to push the half shaft in towards the transfer case - in my case thats a good thing - however the clearance is reduced by doing so between the springs and the tire sidewall.

These issues are probably obvious to most of you - but I'm really just a newbie around cars - I find it tremendously interesting - but its time consuming and expensive education...however, now I'm closer to knowing what really needs to be done.

No beef w/you JVL - I can see how setting up the ears, without the car in front of you (or some example of that car) is always going to be a very dicey proposition. One thing though - if I were to have the ears re-done, how would you recommend doing that? (only the fronts need doing).

Further - I had the studs lopped off and had 14mm x 1.5 wheel studs welded to the tops - required for the hard top mounts, but also due to the weakened studs after threading.