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Question about springs

Posted by ChrisKobi 
ChrisKobi
Chris Kobayashi
Senior Moderator
Location: Seattle, Wash.
Join Date: 02/15/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 319

Rally Car:
2000 ford focus zx3



Question about springs
August 17, 2014 05:58PM
So at olympus I was running a 10" 375 lbs/inch spring and the rear seemed to slide around really easy compared to when i was running stock springs the year before and I couldnt turn at all. So I am thinking that I will get a less stiff spring. So not knowing the old spring rate its hard to pick something that may be in between. So hopefully someone here may be able to give me a good guess at a recomeded spring rate. Also, and this may be a stupid question would I need to get a slightly longer spring if I get a lower spring rate? This would be to compensate for saging? I dunno so I ask.
Any input would be great! Thanks!

Chris
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Clayto
Clayton McCrary
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Location: Olympia,WA
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XRatty purchased. Now build it!!


Re: Question about springs
August 17, 2014 11:10PM
Hi Chris!
I ran a 10" 275lbs spring for Olympus and they did great!

You shouldn't have to get a longer spring because sagging would only happen if you had a giant lead weight in the trunk.

The lesser the tension the more sway and less slide. But!! We like more slide and more slide means more gas!!

I would try to drop the rate down. Maybe split the difference from what u have now compared to your stock setup. JVAB might knowsmiling smiley
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 01:06AM
Chris are you saying you haven't yet put the little ( bump in the inner fender so you're not using the springs supplied--and using some insane, rediculous springs insted?

Now we know why rthe car was skatey and out of control...

2 sharpie lones, sawz-all and a little welding...
Probably a fraction of the cost of rolling.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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ChrisKobi
Chris Kobayashi
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Location: Seattle, Wash.
Join Date: 02/15/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 319

Rally Car:
2000 ford focus zx3



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 08:40AM
Thanks Clayton and John!
John kinda sorta, I put in a plate with a 2.25 inch tube welded to it to hold the spring in place. Since the stock springs are impossible to find in that diameter I used a 2.5 inch spring that just sits over the tube. Seems to work. Buttes the new spring is very stiff. The car seemed to be fine going straight didn't seem to skate side to side anymore than before. The turning though it just seemed to loose any grip a bit too easily. Some of that I would blame on myself for lifting mid turn.
I think a bit less slippy might be good. It's a good experience though. Starting to get the feel of how the car is reacting to brakes and gas.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 10:40AM
Quote
ChrisKobi
Thanks Clayton and John!
John kinda sorta, I put in a plate with a 2.25 inch tube welded to it to hold the spring in place. Since the stock springs are impossible to find in that diameter I used a 2.5 inch spring that just sits over the tube. Seems to work. Buttes the new spring is very stiff. The car seemed to be fine going straight didn't seem to skate side to side anymore than before. The turning though it just seemed to loose any grip a bit too easily. Some of that I would blame on myself for lifting mid turn.
I think a bit less slippy might be good. It's a good experience though. Starting to get the feel of how the car is reacting to brakes and gas.

Wait. I can't remember. Did you get the rear shocks from me? It's been more than 2 years so i can remember if you just got fronts or struts AND shocks.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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ChrisKobi
Chris Kobayashi
Senior Moderator
Location: Seattle, Wash.
Join Date: 02/15/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 319

Rally Car:
2000 ford focus zx3



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 11:55AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ChrisKobi
Thanks Clayton and John!
John kinda sorta, I put in a plate with a 2.25 inch tube welded to it to hold the spring in place. Since the stock springs are impossible to find in that diameter I used a 2.5 inch spring that just sits over the tube. Seems to work. Buttes the new spring is very stiff. The car seemed to be fine going straight didn't seem to skate side to side anymore than before. The turning though it just seemed to loose any grip a bit too easily. Some of that I would blame on myself for lifting mid turn.
I think a bit less slippy might be good. It's a good experience though. Starting to get the feel of how the car is reacting to brakes and gas.

Wait. I can't remember. Did you get the rear shocks from me? It's been more than 2 years so i can remember if you just got fronts or struts AND shocks.

Yes I got the struts and rear shocks. No springs for rears.
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ChrisKobi
Chris Kobayashi
Senior Moderator
Location: Seattle, Wash.
Join Date: 02/15/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 319

Rally Car:
2000 ford focus zx3



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 11:56AM
Quote
ChrisKobi
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
ChrisKobi
Thanks Clayton and John!
John kinda sorta, I put in a plate with a 2.25 inch tube welded to it to hold the spring in place. Since the stock springs are impossible to find in that diameter I used a 2.5 inch spring that just sits over the tube. Seems to work. Buttes the new spring is very stiff. The car seemed to be fine going straight didn't seem to skate side to side anymore than before. The turning though it just seemed to loose any grip a bit too easily. Some of that I would blame on myself for lifting mid turn.
I think a bit less slippy might be good. It's a good experience though. Starting to get the feel of how the car is reacting to brakes and gas.

Wait. I can't remember. Did you get the rear shocks from me? It's been more than 2 years so i can remember if you just got fronts or struts AND shocks.



Yes I got the struts and rear shocks. No springs for rears.
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Rallymech
Robert Gobright
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91 VW GTI 8V


Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 12:16PM
Don't lift mid turn unless you want a big slide!!!



Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.
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RALLYRS
Mike Ball
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2.3 Duratec ZX3 yard art...2.5 coming some day..


Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 03:28PM
Quote
ChrisKobi
Thanks Clayton and John!
John kinda sorta, I put in a plate with a 2.25 inch tube welded to it to hold the spring in place. Since the stock springs are impossible to find in that diameter I used a 2.5 inch spring that just sits over the tube. Seems to work. Buttes the new spring is very stiff. The car seemed to be fine going straight didn't seem to skate side to side anymore than before. The turning though it just seemed to loose any grip a bit too easily. Some of that I would blame on myself for lifting mid turn.
I think a bit less slippy might be good. It's a good experience though. Starting to get the feel of how the car is reacting to brakes and gas.

Wait...Chris ..are you still running the rear springs in the stock location?

I thought you bought rear "proper" coilovers from John and grafted in the Truck exhaust tube for clearance.....no?

Just running non coilover rear Jvab "shocks"?
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ChrisKobi
Chris Kobayashi
Senior Moderator
Location: Seattle, Wash.
Join Date: 02/15/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 319

Rally Car:
2000 ford focus zx3



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 06:42PM
Quote
RALLYRS
Quote
ChrisKobi
Thanks Clayton and John!
John kinda sorta, I put in a plate with a 2.25 inch tube welded to it to hold the spring in place. Since the stock springs are impossible to find in that diameter I used a 2.5 inch spring that just sits over the tube. Seems to work. Buttes the new spring is very stiff. The car seemed to be fine going straight didn't seem to skate side to side anymore than before. The turning though it just seemed to loose any grip a bit too easily. Some of that I would blame on myself for lifting mid turn.
I think a bit less slippy might be good. It's a good experience though. Starting to get the feel of how the car is reacting to brakes and gas.

Wait...Chris ..are you still running the rear springs in the stock location?

I thought you bought rear "proper" coilovers from John and grafted in the Truck exhaust tube for clearance.....no?

Just running non coilover rear Jvab "shocks"?

Mike,
Yes the rears are in the stock location. Wanted to do the Truck exhaust tube but it wouldnt work considering where the upper control arm is. It is right next to the shock and about level with the top of the threads on the shock. Spring and the adjuster nuts wouldnt fit. Not sure what the adjusters for the coil overs are called. Is your Focus set up that way and if so how did you get around the upper control arm? Also Im limmited on skillset for doing a bunch of cutting and welding. I could probably cut the area out for the truck exhaust but after that Id be screwed as I dont have a welder and I wouldnt trust my welding skills for something that would be under a lot of stress.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,993

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 07:24PM
Quote
ChrisKobi
Quote
RALLYRS
Quote
ChrisKobi
Thanks Clayton and John!
John kinda sorta, I put in a plate with a 2.25 inch tube welded to it to hold the spring in place. Since the stock springs are impossible to find in that diameter I used a 2.5 inch spring that just sits over the tube. Seems to work. Buttes the new spring is very stiff. The car seemed to be fine going straight didn't seem to skate side to side anymore than before. The turning though it just seemed to loose any grip a bit too easily. Some of that I would blame on myself for lifting mid turn.
I think a bit less slippy might be good. It's a good experience though. Starting to get the feel of how the car is reacting to brakes and gas.

Wait...Chris ..are you still running the rear springs in the stock location?

I thought you bought rear "proper" coilovers from John and grafted in the Truck exhaust tube for clearance.....no?

Just running non coilover rear Jvab "shocks"?

Mike,
Yes the rears are in the stock location. Wanted to do the Truck exhaust tube but it wouldnt work considering where the upper control arm is. It is right next to the shock and about level with the top of the threads on the shock. Spring and the adjuster nuts wouldnt fit. Not sure what the adjusters for the coil overs are called. Is your Focus set up that way and if so how did you get around the upper control arm? Also Im limmited on skillset for doing a bunch of cutting and welding. I could probably cut the area out for the truck exhaust but after that Id be screwed as I dont have a welder and I wouldnt trust my welding skills for something that would be under a lot of stress.


I have voluterred 4-5 times in various ways to the point of giving up that you cut and clean and I'd weld.. 4 or 5 times.. I am not going to beg to do favors, and now I am buried for quite a while...

Chris, I don't know if its reading problems or if i intimidate you or what but you vannot just throw random shit onto a car and just hope it works out..
You see the result.
Now because of work/babysit/house rebuild load I don't know when I could do what you should have done way back--before caging the car...or WHEN caging the car.
The stuff clears--How do you think we've bolted the same stuff onto other Fucci?

Where did you get the idea of such insane springs?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ChrisKobi
Chris Kobayashi
Senior Moderator
Location: Seattle, Wash.
Join Date: 02/15/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 319

Rally Car:
2000 ford focus zx3



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 08:22PM
I have voluterred 4-5 times in various ways to the point of giving up that you cut and clean and I'd weld.. 4 or 5 times.. I am not going to beg to do favors, and now I am buried for quite a while...

Chris, I don't know if its reading problems or if i intimidate you or what but you vannot just throw random shit onto a car and just hope it works out..
You see the result.
Now because of work/babysit/house rebuild load I don't know when I could do what you should have done way back--before caging the car...or WHEN caging the car.
The stuff clears--How do you think we've bolted the same stuff onto other Fucci?

Where did you get the idea of such insane springs?[/quote]

Yeah I don't just throw shit at the car and hope it works, I do talk with others that have knowledge in cars. As far as the springs go we knew they may be too stiff. We took some measurements of pivot points and lengths and went with it. We had some springs on hand that were a little more stiff than we wanted but they were there so we tried them. So now I know what too stiff feels like. I think that is a good thing, I learned something.

Im still curous how you fit that coil over in with the upper control arm there. I know you made a whole new set up but you used the existing attachements and cut the hub assembly from the trailing arm as far as I can recall.
Here is a picture of what I'm looking at. I know youve seen it all but others may not know what I'm talking about.
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RALLYRS
Mike Ball
Mega Moderator
Location: Simi Valley,Ca.
Join Date: 07/15/2011
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 357

Rally Car:
2.3 Duratec ZX3 yard art...2.5 coming some day..


Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 08:45PM
I havent done mine yet but a pic..
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Attachments:
open | download - FocusSuspension11.jpg (56.1 KB)
FocusSuspension11.jpg
RALLYRS
Mike Ball
Mega Moderator
Location: Simi Valley,Ca.
Join Date: 07/15/2011
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 357

Rally Car:
2.3 Duratec ZX3 yard art...2.5 coming some day..


Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 08:47PM
Looks close but fits...
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Attachments:
open | download - FocusSuspension8.jpg (64.2 KB)
FocusSuspension8.jpg
ChrisKobi
Chris Kobayashi
Senior Moderator
Location: Seattle, Wash.
Join Date: 02/15/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 319

Rally Car:
2000 ford focus zx3



Re: Question about springs
August 18, 2014 08:57PM
Yes those are the pics I was thinking of. Yes thats very close!
I see, so there is some sort of extender type sleeve that allows the adjuster nuts to be under the control arm. Thats what I need!
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