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Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?

Posted by crankshaft 
crankshaft
Aaron Gibson
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Location: South Burlington, VT
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Posts: 83

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Cars are lame, I have a motorcycle


Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 05, 2014 03:17PM
One of my dirt bike riding buddies has been bending my ear about getting into Rally. He's been racing late model circle track cars for many years and He's really good at it considering the amount of Championships He's Won. He can ride the crap out of a dirt bike too. Anyway, we've been discussing the options and trying to figure out how to best approach getting into rally without breaking the bank. Renting is out, He's pretty convinced that buying is better, even if it's a rat.

Goals-

Have fun

Rear wheel drive

Cost effective but not cheap, He understands the difference

Have fun

Be competitive

Have fun

We're currently looking at an E30 roller that's a good clean start. It's a 325i with an Auto trans but very clean. He's trading a cruiser motorcycle for it, so a win all the way around. From what I'm reading on the other E30 thread, the struts from JVL are an excellent, cost effective choice. We're going to start looking for cage kits soon, so any help in that regard would be helpful.
He's been wrenching on race cars for awhile and has a pretty well set up shop, so we're not afraid of fabbing anything. Any thoughts?
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,987

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 05, 2014 09:31PM
Quote
crankshaft
One of my dirt bike riding buddies has been bending my ear about getting into Rally. He's been racing late model circle track cars for many years and He's really good at it considering the amount of Championships He's Won. He can ride the crap out of a dirt bike too. Anyway, we've been discussing the options and trying to figure out how to best approach getting into rally without breaking the bank. Renting is out, He's pretty convinced that buying is better, even if it's a rat.

Goals-

Have fun

Rear wheel drive

Cost effective but not cheap, He understands the difference

Have fun

Be competitive

Have fun

We're currently looking at an E30 roller that's a good clean start. It's a 325i with an Auto trans but very clean. He's trading a cruiser motorcycle for it, so a win all the way around. From what I'm reading on the other E30 thread, the struts from JVL are an excellent, cost effective choice. We're going to start looking for cage kits soon, so any help in that regard would be helpful.
He's been wrenching on race cars for awhile and has a pretty well set up shop, so we're not afraid of fabbing anything. Any thoughts?


Do a Volvo 240 or an Xratty...here's one in Maine for cheap:

1988 Merkur XR4Ti - $650 (Westbrook)
image 1


http://images.craigslist.org/01717_cZzxG7I2bAd_600x450.jpg

condition: salvage

1988 merkur xr4ti fuel : gas transmission : manual title status : clean
Parts vehicle or restoration job. Does not currently run. Willing to deliver locally. New front and rear glass. Body in excellent condition, no accidents. Email for more info. Asking $650 OBO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/4630553056.html
1992 VOLVO 240 SEDAN - $465 (LYMAN)
image 1

1992 Volvo 240 sedan odometer: 220000 VIN: yv1as8207n1458382 paint color : silver size : mid-size type : sedan drive : fwd fuel : gas transmission : manual title status : clean cylinders : 4 cylinders




1992 5-speed in need of motor mounts-has good exhaust system, 2 tires in good shape-some rust on back side panel-(minor) Drivers side door dented. Selling as parts car or salvage. Please call or e-mail if interested. Thanks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/4638653422.html

989 Volvo 240 DL - $800 (South Portland)

condition: fair

1989 volvo 240dl odometer: 98000 paint color : silver size : mid-size type : sedan drive : rwd fuel : gas transmission : manual title status : clean cylinders : 4 cylinders
1989 Volvo 240 DL for sale. needs upper rear track bars and possible transmission linkage work. Car has had several thousand dollars of repairs in the last few years including breaks, exhaust, front and rear end work, tires, and tune-up etc. The car / engine has had only 2 owners and runs like a top and has approximately 98,000 miles on it. Has a current inspection sticker good until 6//2015. Will take $800 or Best offer.

do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



They're both a better and stronger car than an E30.. Good cheap power 2300 FOUR CYLINDER engines.
Easy n.a. power for low buck, crazy n.a. power for some bucks, gearbox swaps EASY, final drives under $200...
Brakes better than E30

For both Volvo 240 and Xratty:
nice 2300 can make from OK to grat n.a. power
Both can easily and reliably make 200-280 ft/lbs torque in turbo form

both can use the same 228mm Kennedy pressure plate

Both can easily get a very goood gearset in the junkyards if lucky using Borg Warner T5 box,
GM V8 or Ford "Z spec"

Both can use Xratty's nice 2.6 turn PS rack, 2.6 is good enough...

Torque is the name of the game....if the motor don't m,ake it then the final drive will---
In a n.a motor if you can make 160/170 ft/lbs and have a broad spread, cool.
Gear it 4.6 to 4.88
Volvo (Dana 30) 4.88 is maybe $140-180
Xratty--with Supra 8" diff--with LSD cost.....$150-185

With Turbo 4.3 final drive is excellent...comes in many Supra diffs.
And since he's circle track guy the welding of a few tabs on a Toyota 4-runner axle shouldn't scare him...and 4-runner have all sorts of final drives..4,3 or 4.67

If its time to BUILD a MOTOR...4 of everything costs 50% less than 6 of everything
So BMWs--all of them
Alternate gears---and you're a bike guy---what would it be like if you have a wide ratio box with a granny low, a low a gigantic gap then 3 autobahn gears...it'd suck huge donkley dongs...---are insanley expensive--
So you can never consider making a slightly peakier n.a. motor.
Final drives shorter than 4.4 are out of the question

Their "big diff" is small

All their sixes but ONE are weak....their 2 valve 6s have combustion chambers so open that making more compression a huge pain in the ass...they have valve train problems---the old 2 valve things with roockers kill the rockers and the rocker shafts get worn and rip the head when you press the shafts out..Stupid pain in the ass,

The 3.0 24v variable timing thing makes GOOD power--240 hp and 225 ft/lbs of torque---butt a big, long heavy and expensive---EXPENSIVE to make reliable

Menawhile plug in a $45 T-bird ECU and the Xratty makes 235 ft/lbs..

Thousands and headaches for 225 ft/lbs or $650+ $45 ECU for 235 ft/lbs

All around there are no ADVANTAGES to the BMW...
All round Xrattys still are the best $ to fun ratio but aren't very common.. Plennty enough still around.
All around the Volvo is more common but wants some easy mods...

Simpler. less is more. 4 cylinders with big motor. Ease of modding box and good choice of cheap final drives.
Stronger.
SIMPLER.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
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Posts: 13,987

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 05, 2014 09:52PM
http://maine.craigslist.org/cto/4652611771.html
maine >
all for sale / wanted >
cars & trucks - by owner

[ account ]

x prohibited[?]

Posted: a day ago
◀ prev ▲ next ▶
1987 Volvo 240 current sticker. solid car - $1200 (Bowdoinham )



1987 volvo 240 odometer: 170 paint color : silver size : mid-size type : sedan drive : rwd fuel : gas transmission : automatic title status : clean cylinders : 4 cylinders
old school volvo 240. automatic.170k miles. runs good, drives and shifts good. took on trade on another car i had. seems very solid, good sticker till march or could register it antique. going to need power steering belt but drives good now. good cheap solid car. asking $1200 or best offer looking to sell quick. may take partial trade but prefer cash. call text or email 207~249~2492

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Maybe have some fun?


2 fer 1
Antique cars - $1250 (Lewiston)


condition: good

1962 Volvo 544 odometer: 62000 paint color : black type : coupe drive : rwd fuel : gas transmission : manual title status : clean
1962 Volvo PV544, 62,000 miles, original patina, a lot of documentation on this Maine car in remarkable condition, restore or do very little to drive as is. has parts car of same original black paint. I do not want any vehicle trades. This is a pair of cars, one needs the engine, drivers door and, fender replaced. The parts car has those parts and is also original black paint. I have gone down from $2,000 to only $1,250. I need garage space.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
crankshaft
Aaron Gibson
Mod Moderator
Location: South Burlington, VT
Join Date: 08/27/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 83

Rally Car:
Cars are lame, I have a motorcycle


Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 06, 2014 07:49AM
This is exactly what I was hoping for, thanks John! My rally experience is with old ratty Audi iron and open class stuff from Mitsu and Sub-ru, so I'm not well versed in the low budget rally bomber class. BMW= Bring my wallet? Beat my wang? Bavarian meat wagon? boring mans whip?

He texted me the other day... "how about a 72 Vega" That would be very cool!
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 06, 2014 10:42AM
Quote
crankshaft
This is exactly what I was hoping for, thanks John! My rally experience is with old ratty Audi iron and open class stuff from Mitsu and Sub-ru, so I'm not well versed in the low budget rally bomber class. BMW= Bring my wallet? Beat my wang? Bavarian meat wagon? boring mans whip?

He texted me the other day... "how about a 72 Vega" That would be very cool!

No it would be horrible. Junk stock everything, same little to no cheaply availavle junkyard parts.

Cool is how a person drives a car..
Again, you're a bike guy. almost any performance bike in last 30 years, moto-cross, good enduro, fast road bike, hell ORDINARY road bike are FAST, EFFECTIVE, RELIABLE aka "cool".
Cars are big piles of shit.
Thus we want one we can come nearer to the reliablity, price and performance of a KDX200---about the best balance of performance and fun..

The fuckin "kewl Vega" would be like making an effort to find a 1970 Kawasaki Trail 80 with Rotary valve abd 4" travel and rubber footpegs----never was cool, it was then a POS and the passage of time didn't transform that steam pile into anything but a steam pile that is hard to find anything for.

Start calling or emailing some of those Craigslist ads.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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crankshaft
Aaron Gibson
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Location: South Burlington, VT
Join Date: 08/27/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 83

Rally Car:
Cars are lame, I have a motorcycle


Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 06, 2014 12:10PM
He's way into the XR, so we're hoping to head to Maine soon and snag it. The local roundy round guys use a similiar motor, so lots of performance stuff exist locally and of course talent. FORD- Found On craigslist Rally Demon?

The Vega was more of a "Hey, that would be cool/wierd" not really practicle obviously.

What would a set of suspension from You for that thing run $$$? His late model runs Bilstiens actually and there is also a good local knowledge base on valving, so double win.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 06, 2014 01:17PM
See? That's thinking: local knowledge.. Do this though: STRESS that 200-220 hp is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than most in Gp2 so not only is there little point , it acually is a waste...
Goal should be upping the ft/lbs and good box and final drive.
Suspensers reay to bolt in including the big spherical bearing top mounts is approx 2200 for the inverted 40s and a bit more if we do 50s...which I will be starting test pieces for Xratty and Focus this evening or tomorrow..

Note the rears get threaded body "B26 fambly" so same internals as his S9Z or smooth body things but threaded OD.. And I got the valving down good. Springs I vary a little depending on skill/aggression



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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crankshaft
Aaron Gibson
Mod Moderator
Location: South Burlington, VT
Join Date: 08/27/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 83

Rally Car:
Cars are lame, I have a motorcycle


Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 06, 2014 02:07PM
From this.....





to this.....



Interesting case study for sure.
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fiasco
Andrew Steere
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too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car



Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 06, 2014 05:15PM
Hey, I was going to have Miguel Blanco check that thing out next week for Lemons car 2.0!!! winking smiley



Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY
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crankshaft
Aaron Gibson
Mod Moderator
Location: South Burlington, VT
Join Date: 08/27/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 83

Rally Car:
Cars are lame, I have a motorcycle


Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 06, 2014 05:34PM
I've been out of the rally scene (cars) for a long time and I'm really excited about coming back. The idea of building another car is really exciting to me...again. John, we're on a slightly different tack at the moment.. Euro Ford stuff but something way more common, like 100's for sale on Craigslist. A bit more fab work but not a heck of a lot more honestly. Check Your PM's.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 07, 2014 12:47AM
Quote
crankshaft
I've been out of the rally scene (cars) for a long time and I'm really excited about coming back. The idea of building another car is really exciting to me...again. John, we're on a slightly different tack at the moment.. Euro Ford stuff but something way more common, like 100's for sale on Craigslist. A bit more fab work but not a heck of a lot more honestly. Check Your PM's.

I did and as I said, I've heard the same "plan" of making a Focus into a RWD 100 or more times...

What the fuck is the point? Fab or Fap?

It sure has been a Fappening 100% of the other times...

Where do these ideas spring from?
Why do so many people suffer the same illusion?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Merkur



Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 07, 2014 08:30AM
Xr4ti. If the 30 year oldness or hideous looks scare you, go with a e36 BMW. Both have rats nests of wiring but the BMW will be newer and less likely to have spent half its life in a field.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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crankshaft
Aaron Gibson
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Location: South Burlington, VT
Join Date: 08/27/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 83

Rally Car:
Cars are lame, I have a motorcycle


Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 07, 2014 11:27AM
I'm masturbating while I read this....it's working
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crankshaft
Aaron Gibson
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Location: South Burlington, VT
Join Date: 08/27/2012
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 83

Rally Car:
Cars are lame, I have a motorcycle


Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 07, 2014 11:58AM
We found a good shell candidate but it's a bit pricey. The other looks like a rot box, which is contrary to the point I thought. I would rather build a subframe than hack out rockers and clean out gaping rust holes. You guys in the west are pretty lucky in that regard.

We're going to the home of a guy in NH thats has a shit load of Euro Ford parts and even a few rally cars on Wednesday to pic through the pile and see what's cooking. Got offered a caged Sapphire shell with a cage in it...Cro-mo of course. Still trying to figure out what we're going to do, just tossing ideas around.

The V8 powered Focus is cool from a car nerd point of view but not practical. It got me thinking about using the Focus platform for RWD. I found three of them within a 5 mile radius of my house..plentiful...cheap... Parts are around, motors are everywhere. A guy in England used the XR rear suspension and it looked perfect.

Maybe He'll spring for the really clean XR shell... not my money.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Roundy round guy wants to try rally- A love story?
September 07, 2014 01:48PM
Quote
crankshaft
We found a good shell candidate but it's a bit pricey. The other looks like a rot box, which is contrary to the point I thought. I would rather build a subframe than hack out rockers and clean out gaping rust holes. You guys in the west are pretty lucky in that regard.

Well maybe you have to drive a bit..Driving in a comfy truck for 40 hours beats the hell outta repairing rust for 100 hours in my book..
Come out and grab my spare rust free maroon Xratty...

Quote

We're going to the home of a guy in NH thats has a shit load of Euro Ford parts and even a few rally cars on Wednesday to pic through the pile and see what's cooking. Got offered a caged Sapphire shell with a cage in it...Cro-mo of course. Still trying to figure out what we're going to do, just tossing ideas around.

He sure likes to put big price tag on stuff.

Quote

The V8 powered Focus is cool from a car nerd point of view but not practical.

Well I'm not a nerd or impressed with pointless junk--like V8s..I have very limited imagination, and although a pay very casual attention to other things there's really been only 3 things I devote time and energy to in motor-sports: moto-cross and closely related enduro (which really was just slightly wider ratios, bigger tank, lights and much softer suspension to work at lower speeds but otherwise the same basic stuff), and gravel rally at clubbie level.



Quote

It got me thinking about using the Focus platform for RWD. I found three of them within a 5 mile radius of my house..plentiful...cheap... Parts are around, motors are everywhere. A guy in England used the XR rear suspension and it looked perfect.

You (or your guy) CAN do anything.. And yes in UK there have been a number of usually 4x4 conversions but thats usually grafting an entire Sierra floor into the car--and using YBB or YBG Cossie powerplant-- but again what's the point?
There isn't one.

Personally since the guy is coming from circle track, ya know a RWD car with front engine and solid axle rear---to me he's pissing away a lot of his previous knowledge going to an IRS car--like Xratty...that's why I push the damn 240 Volvo...It's just a bigger Escort... Zap in shock towers and long links for some gentler arcs---cause that's the biggest difference to his roundy pounder--we get grip via TRAVEL, long travel. and be done with it..
Then tune the links for grip out of corners..

Quote

Maybe He'll spring for the really clean XR shell... not my money.

You need to get the idea of trick shit and fancy projects FOR NO COMPETITIVE REASONS out of your head...

Simplest tool to do the job...and the job here is not a bar very high, so you (he) don't NEED much to beat most people....
What he'll need is some time getting used to the unpredictable braking points and grip on braking...

So bearing in mind how well a late model thing works, how simple they are, how easy tuning links and swapping ratios are (the Toyota solid axle is a "drop out" diff like Ford 9"---that's another reason I lurv 'em),
Why no love for the 240 Volvo? (remember I'm spossed to be a Ford guy--I own 4 currently---it oughtter make ya wonder, ponder a bit why I push the 240 so vigorously...what would make a guy push a different brand so hard? )



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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