Volvo 1030 axles

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Eric Ewert
well, shit. You guys are awesome. Fine ill try the toyletta thing.

I wonder if there is a way to make the stock volvo handbrake work on the toyota thing? Because I don't need a hydro one. I think there stupid for the most part and never use one other than to park the damn thing.

Don't judge me on the daily driven rally car! Well ok judge all you want but im still doing it... im 20, insuring two cars is not an option.

The stock Volvo handbrake only work if you plant 2 feet on the dash to brace yourself and pull hard, then the car might not roll very far, you can usually find it..
It does not work for any fun stuff. The rear calipers with good design lever---I keep Xratty ones because they are easy bolt on and easy mod to get the ratio right----work quite amsuingly..
I mean why have a handbrake if you can't do a easy yank at 70km and rotate the car when you drove past a free parking space?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
mellow65

Quote
Eric Ewert
well, shit. You guys are awesome. Fine ill try the toyletta thing.

I wonder if there is a way to make the stock volvo handbrake work on the toyota thing? Because I don't need a hydro one. I think there stupid for the most part and never use one other than to park the damn thing.

Don't judge me on the daily driven rally car! Well ok judge all you want but im still doing it... im 20, insuring two cars is not an option.

The volvo e brakes are internal drums, so you would need to mount the backing plate and use the rotors also. When picking your calipers, find something with a integrated e brake, the GM metric ones use pretty much the most supported pad out there. And if you want to ditch the mechanical hand brake someday, you can swap on any of the tons of metric calipers out there.

The e brake ones I'm talking about came 1979-1985 Cadillac Seville.

Other then that, there are mustang ones like Gene said, and probably a whole list of them, it's just going to take some time at the junkyard. Just make sure you find something with aftermarket support. I'm kicking myself for that mistake right now.

Volvo calipers are great. 2x 1.5 pistons , same pad as Portch 911 Front up to '74 so huge array of pads, cheap---on the car....big disc..

No need to fuck with these parts..

.just get over the I dun't wanna hydro handbrake--a whim very hard to understand---and like a lotta other wierd beliefs "Only in (the) America(s)"

Just a little CAD work--cardboard aided design---for the braket to mount, transfer cardboard to steel and ZAAAAAAAAAPP!!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham

Quote
mellow65

Quote
Eric Ewert
well, shit. You guys are awesome. Fine ill try the toyletta thing.

I wonder if there is a way to make the stock volvo handbrake work on the toyota thing? Because I don't need a hydro one. I think there stupid for the most part and never use one other than to park the damn thing.

Don't judge me on the daily driven rally car! Well ok judge all you want but im still doing it... im 20, insuring two cars is not an option.

The volvo e brakes are internal drums, so you would need to mount the backing plate and use the rotors also. When picking your calipers, find something with a integrated e brake, the GM metric ones use pretty much the most supported pad out there. And if you want to ditch the mechanical hand brake someday, you can swap on any of the tons of metric calipers out there.

The e brake ones I'm talking about came 1979-1985 Cadillac Seville.

Other then that, there are mustang ones like Gene said, and probably a whole list of them, it's just going to take some time at the junkyard. Just make sure you find something with aftermarket support. I'm kicking myself for that mistake right now.

Volvo calipers are great. 2x 1.5 pistons , same pad as Portch 911 Front up to '74 so huge array of pads, cheap---on the car....big disc..

No need to fuck with these parts..

.just get over the I dun't wanna hydro handbrake--a whim very hard to understand---and like a lotta other wierd beliefs "Only in (the) America(s)"

Just a little CAD work--cardboard aided design---for the braket to mount, transfer cardboard to steel and ZAAAAAAAAAPP!!

just get over the fact he doesn't want a hydro brake and how about you contribute ideas that aren't the same recycled yelling over and over again.

---

"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

One thing to look out for with the Toyota rear end, is that there are 2 different length housings.
The split is 1985 I think. A straight axle yoda will have the narrow rear-end at 55in (the same as the Volvo). The IFS yoda is 58in I believe. So if you want to match up widths, go early. I haven't measured to see what a 58in diff looks like in a Volvo.

Depending on what your skill set is, you can go either way on the diff.
Can you weld and take time to align something? The Ford 8.8 is a cheap option with unlimited LSD ($250 new) options and gearing options ($200). The shortening can easily be done with a internal sleeve and 2-pieced of angle iron. We have shortened 9in rears with less, and they went in circles for many years.
The bolt pattern is 5X4.5, so almost anything ford will fit. You cal also redrill the front hubs, Kahplenke does it for $60 per. The ford also has a rear cover, which makes inspection and maintenance easier.

The Toyota axle needs the flanges turned, and the axles re-drilled, or run 6-bolt wheels. Clutch type LSD are not nearly as cheap, and rebuild parts are not as available (factory is hard to find, supra will fit but it requires a bearing change). The third member has to come out for inspections and maintenance, and that just takes time. It does have a (probably) stronger housing design, and it offers a nice place to mount a Watts link. John was mentioning the 2 vs 4 pinions gears. That's probably not an issue since they the 8.8 has backed up every mustang and f150'250 since the 1980s, and the spider gears are fairly big. They have been known to break from hard launched with a V8 at the drag strip.

The choice is yours, and depending on your skills and available parts, both are good options.
I lean towards the 8.8 since they are everywhere here, much cheaper to work on, and I don't mind minor fab work.

The Volvo hand brake works mint with new rotors and proper adjustment. I can fling my car around on pavement without any problem what-so-ever....?

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Robert Culbertson
The Volvo hand brake works mint with new rotors and proper adjustment. I can fling my car around on pavement without any problem what-so-ever....?

In the new car, mine will throw you through the window, it's pretty awesome.

---

"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

I'll clarify the daily driven thing...not judging anyone. Reasons not to drive your race car : a caged car without a helmet is a risk of sorts. Not having DOT belts is a risk of sorts. Explaining an insurance claim to your carrier MAY be a risk of sorts. The other side of the coin is racing your daily driver...in the back of your mind you will be aware if you crash or break things may be ugly Monday morning. If you aren't mentally committed to rallying in the moment you run risk of less than stellar performance. Doubt, whether over getting to work, a co-drivers ability, engine reliability and so on will never allow you to grow and be proficient to your real potential.

Get a reliable daily driver, work or school are what's important. You owe it to yourself and others to meet the responsibility of showing up when expected. Rally car, insure it only for the event. Swap the coverage, swap it back Monday. We're talking what 2-3 times a year??May be a small fee, may not. Having two cars need not cost twice as much.

E-brakes...cable brakes are less than reliable on a good day, let alone an old whatever. Cables stretch, cables seize, cables break. E-brake calipers are generally more expensive to replace and if buying from a junk yard they like to seize in the ebrake portion as well. Hydraulic....you already have a functioning hydraulic system. You can add a clutch master cylinder and a bit of tubing. I've done it, Johns done it, many of Gods chillin have done it. It works, it's pretty cheap and damn it can be fun on a hairpin corner. Worried about rolling?? Grab a rock or a block of wood with a small rope attached to retrieve it with. Guys do that at the boat launch all the time.

One of my 'concerns' with the building of JVs cars is you are doing a massive amount of work in the end. Yup all little steps that sound easy but you are trying to replicate what dozens of factory trained people with million dollar budgets and tools, shops, materials did. It can be done , no doubt, but it can be a chore at some point. John is a great coach and motivator . You're too far along to cut corners now, at least on the diff thing. John a %110 correct this time, listen to the old farts for just a moment and think it thru. Take a breath, get a drink, chase down a farm animal .. whatever but sleep on it overnight.

Robert, the boy has been doing fine with one cook...You worked on the Toyota thing into a volvo?
No didn't think so...
so:

Yeah except the rear axle in a 240 is how many inches narrower than the front? 2 point what?

The Ford thing is bigger and bulkier and heavier...
8.8 in a volvo is stupid Robert. Stupid overkill, and extra expense...
the diff is nothing special..
200 is more than $75-100.

Why de-rail things just to derail things?

Bolt circle is wrong--so that's another expense or "same" problem.
Guy in Canada sending to a mommy's boy in USA --great reasoning dude $60 and how much postage and time for numb-nuts to do anything?

Extra axle is extra cost. Flange is wrong---

He has a guy who can help, and who has volunteered to help right there in town just a coupla miles away.---I put the 2 together because both have spent lotsa time on the phone, both have visited and we like each other...
What are you trying to do?

Volvo Dana 30 thing is 7.2" ring gear and isn't THAT bad..
8.8" is HUGE
8" is nice step up.Reasonable..

You seen the size of the bearings in the Toyota thing? Seen the size of the half shafts?
They are bigger than many Ford 9" units.

Seriously have you been inside a Toyota 8"?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
mellow65
The factory 4.88 from toyota. They had thinner ring gears.

[quote
The FACTORY 4.88 V6 diff is unique!
- Axle code G144, white pinion paint code,
- generally came in 92-95 trucks/4runners with V6, auto tranny, 31" tires, and tow package.
- Housing offsets pinion towards ring gear, allowing ring gear to be thinner
- OEM Toyota gears are the ONLY gears that fit this diff due to the thinner ring gear. All other gear sets have thicker ring gears and do not fit.
- The carrier (case) is the same as the V6 diffs, so normal V6 lockers, LSD's, etc. will work in this diff

[/quote]

..Wait, that is not what I understood the problem to be! Hell, that's worse! I thought the problem was you couldn't put a common diff in a (OEM) 4.88 rear because the flange was offset different.

But no, the problem is the casting is different, so the diff is the same but you are locked in to only being able to use that one gear... Oh well at least it seems to mean you can put any old diff in it!

---

Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

Quote
Pete

Quote
Pete

Quote
mellow65
The factory 4.88 from toyota. They had thinner ring gears.

[quote
The FACTORY 4.88 V6 diff is unique!
- Axle code G144, white pinion paint code,
- generally came in 92-95 trucks/4runners with V6, auto tranny, 31" tires, and tow package.
- Housing offsets pinion towards ring gear, allowing ring gear to be thinner
- OEM Toyota gears are the ONLY gears that fit this diff due to the thinner ring gear. All other gear sets have thicker ring gears and do not fit.
- The carrier (case) is the same as the V6 diffs, so normal V6 lockers, LSD's, etc. will work in this diff

..Wait, that is not what I understood the problem to be! Hell, that's worse! I thought the problem was you couldn't put a common diff in a (OEM) 4.88 rear because the flange was offset different.

But no, the problem is the casting is different, so the diff is the same but you are locked in to only being able to use that one gear... Oh well at least it seems to mean you can put any old diff in it!

Yup, the castings and ring gears were different. But all 4 cyl and 6 cyl 3rd members will fit in the housings. So you are better off starting with a 6 cyl 3rd and putting 4.88s in it.

---

"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2014 04:04PM by mellow65.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Robert, the boy has been doing fine with one cook...You worked on the Toyota thing into a volvo?
No didn't think so...
so:

Yeah except the rear axle in a 240 is how many inches narrower than the front? 2 point what?

The Ford thing is bigger and bulkier and heavier...
8.8 in a volvo is stupid Robert. Stupid overkill, and extra expense...
the diff is nothing special..
200 is more than $75-100.

Why de-rail things just to derail things?

Bolt circle is wrong--so that's another expense or "same" problem.
Guy in Canada sending to a mommy's boy in USA --great reasoning dude $60 and how much postage and time for numb-nuts to do anything?

Extra axle is extra cost. Flange is wrong---

He has a guy who can help, and who has volunteered to help right there in town just a coupla miles away.---I put the 2 together because both have spent lotsa time on the phone, both have visited and we like each other...
What are you trying to do?

Volvo Dana 30 thing is 7.2" ring gear and isn't THAT bad..
8.8" is HUGE
8" is nice step up.Reasonable..

You seen the size of the bearings in the Toyota thing? Seen the size of the half shafts?
They are bigger than many Ford 9" units.

Seriously have you been inside a Toyota 8"?

I'm not trying to add another cook, I'm just trying to show him some options with the positives and negatives laid out. John I have no idea where you get parts for so cheap, but finding anything used Toyota is expensive. We have talked before and you live in some magical fairy land where used car parts are literally falling out of the sky.

The Toyota is a good option. It requires some work, as does the 8.8. The weight difference is not there, sorry. The toyota weighs 175-ish (w/o brakes), and the 8.8 weighs 175 lbs complete.

The bolt pattern is not a deal breaker, but! On the Toyota, you have to turn down the flange, weld up some holes, and then drill to whatever pattern you want (since there's NO WAY that you can fit a 6x 5.5 bolt pattern on the front hubs). This is time and money, and it sounds to me that machine shops up there are charging a pretty penny for time.

The 8.8 is 5x4.5, not much bigger than stock volvo at 5x4.25. The front hubs CAN BE drilled to 5x4.5 by your favorite Volvo tuner Ben @ Kahplenke racing for a minor price. 5x4.5 wheels are used on almost every ford, dime a dozen.


There is more than one option John, and it doesn't always have to be Toyota.

Honestly, just go Volvo. They work okay with a 4.10, welded 1031.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2014 03:58PM by Robert Culbertson.

What is the width that people are looking for? axle flange to axle flange? Is it doable to use the wider Ford and just add fender flares...flares are stoopid easy to do.

Options are nice to be discussed and various ways of doing things worked out. That can't happen with just one voice John..just sayin. Everyone needs to add their 2cents worth and perceptions. That is what makes this whole thing work.

Down here the 'mudder' kids keep the Toy stuff at a premium. Those guys could break a sledgehammer in a sandbox.

Quote
john vanlandingham
.just get over the I dun't wanna hydro handbrake--a whim very hard to understand---and like a lotta other wierd beliefs "Only in (the) America(s)"

Aren't you the one always talking about looking at effort and cost vs. return?

In the big, wide, open roads we have here, handbrakes are functionally pointless for the vast majority of the field. If I can wrestle an RS around a '3 point turn' hairpin with a 20kg centre diff not using the handbrake, why would someone in a RWD car need it?

A little LFB goes a long way in just about any car. In RWD, a touch of brake to get the front end biting and a whole lot o' wellie makes a handbrake fairly redundant. (Then again, you've never rallied a RWD car... )

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Who needs a handbrake? Wet pavement and a foot pedal will do.

---

Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

Gene, the stock Volvo rear end width is 55in flange to flange (53.5 track width). The front width is 58ish with a track width of 56.5in. I have run 1.25in spacers on either side in the rear with a 7.5in wide rim. No flares needed (thanks goodnes, I would hate to loose those swooping arches )

The Toyota diffs come in two flavors: 55in flange-to-flange and 58in.
Ford exploder 8.8 is 59in flange to flange. The center housing is offset ~3in, so people cut 2.875 inches out of the long tube (near the hub) and weld back on. Brings the width to ~56in.