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VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations

Posted by Kurt Thiel 
Kurt Thiel
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Join Date: 07/26/2014
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VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 03, 2014 04:23PM
What recommendations for replacing CIS Injection on my Mark 2 2.0 16v. Pros-cons and costs. individual throttle bodies or stock manifold? injector cc/m? Mega Squirt, simple digital systems, haltech? I am looking to produce about 220 bhp.
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fliz
Chad Eixenberger
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 03, 2014 04:43PM
I looked into it a bit when I was considering building a 2.0 16V from an ABA block.

From what I remember, the 1.8T cups/injectors/rail will work with the 16V head.

Mega Squirt...heard some good some bad. Didn't really find a solid lead on affordable ECU.
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wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 03, 2014 05:06PM
Talk to Wimpeys, also USRT.



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
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wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 03, 2014 05:11PM
At least three companies do itb rigs: Jenvey, Weber Alpha and TWM, oh and also Dbilas. But 220 without internal mods will be hard.



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
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john vanlandingham
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 03, 2014 06:08PM
Hey Kurt, you know if the intake manifold bolt up is the same on your head as the old 1800 16v?

Or can it be made to work? Cause I just happen to have an intake manifold for Weber DCOE or ITB with that bolt pattern.

And I would make sure you talk to somebody with at least some experience building 2 liter n.a. rally motors in that HP range.....

Who could we find?

WHO???


WHO!!!!???


WHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just check and he said "sheeeut 200-220 and I shore as hell would be worried about how peaky or cammy or whatever the motor would be and how hard the motor's gonna fall down on gearchanges---unless the guy has a honest to god close ratio box"

You have a real close ratio box?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Kurt Thiel
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 03, 2014 07:27PM
All the internal engine work has been done less the cams. I am going to upgrade the injection before swapping in the cams. I may need to notch the pistons with the new cams. This is why I have not swapped them in yet and the fact that peeky cams are not the best for winter Canadian rallys. I have a Mikuni setup with manifolds already but I have been told that they tend to ice up in cold weather by people that have used them in winter rally.
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Kurt Thiel
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 03, 2014 07:46PM
Btw john I am still working on getting a proper gear box for the car. I did change to a 4.45 ring and pinion. I am thinking I went to far for the current set up but it
Should be ideal with the large cams and switching to larger 15 in tires and wheels.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 03, 2014 08:28PM
Quote
Kurt Thiel
All the internal engine work has been done less the cams. I am going to upgrade the injection before swapping in the cams. I may need to notch the pistons with the new cams. This is why I have not swapped them in yet and the fact that peeky cams are not the best for winter Canadian rallys. I have a Mikuni setup with manifolds already but I have been told that they tend to ice up in cold weather by people that have used them in winter rally.

Save millions! Sling those fawkers on. Chop up some ol buckets and make a warm air intake for winter.. (I had nice icing on my set up but according to the ex-spurts, I never did anything so if I didn't open the throttles no air would flow so no evaporation of fuel, no icing...Good planning on my part!)
Remember the carbs on my car are over 17-18" from the motor...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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BobOfTheFuture
Rob Russo
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 04, 2014 06:27AM
If errr planes do it, why not rally cars?



Enablers, All of you.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 04, 2014 11:30AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
And I would make sure you talk to somebody with at least some experience building 2 liter n.a. rally motors in that HP range.....

Paulinho Ferreria? Kris Dahl?
I'm having a hard time thinking of any other Honda guys that might have built their engines. Pretty sure a VW never gets to that kinda power level NA and actually have it last more than a drive around the block. Oh wait, I guess I should think about rotary powered cars also.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 04, 2014 01:22PM
Quote
NoCoast
Quote
john vanlandingham
And I would make sure you talk to somebody with at least some experience building 2 liter n.a. rally motors in that HP range.....

Paulinho Ferreria? Kris Dahl?
I'm having a hard time thinking of any other Honda guys that might have built their engines. Pretty sure a VW never gets to that kinda power level NA and actually have it last more than a drive around the block. Oh wait, I guess I should think about rotary powered cars also.

No, Grant I was think more the guy who built the 2.0 16v that beat both Kurt and I way back in the 90s and who built this one, 2.0 16v YB:




So guess again



John Vanlandingham
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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 04, 2014 02:36PM
This Lehmann motor in a Golf IV Kit Car is alleged to be making 298 horses. I know that the the Lehman motors in the Golf III Kit Car made at least 260.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.161917520497330.30325.161484717207277&type=1



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2014 02:36PM by wvonkessler.
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tdrrally
edward mucklow
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 04, 2014 03:11PM
i do love a golf IV rally car



I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!
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Chris Eyre
Chris Eyre
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 04, 2014 05:50PM
Realistic power levels on the tallblock 16v / ABA 16v clones are:

- 170bhp for a standard engine with management
- 180 for a standard engine with management and ITBs
- 190 for a standard engine with management, ITBs and mild cams

Onwards and $-upwards from there, 250 is your ceiling. Most wallet bump stops kick in long before that. Big cams, compression, 210 to 230.

260 to 280 quoted on Lehmann's 16v finest, on the finest fuel available, with the most finite service intervals, with some fine Pankl long rods (>159mm), fine titanium narrow stem valves, and short skirt 84mm Mahles, pumping up and down on a 90mm bespoke crank grind, and mapped to the hilt on a Bosch Motorsport ECU.

Nice to think about, thousands to fund.

ECU-wise, Megasquirt, DTA, Haltech. Under-graph torque benefits over carbs all day long. Fuel and spark tables to hand over control to to you!





Maybe, just maybe, it’s down to the driver.

VWMotorsport.info | SeatSport.info | 4 VW Golf Mk3 A59s exclusively revealed > here <



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2014 05:52PM by Chris Eyre.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: VW 2.0 16v electronic injection recomendations
December 04, 2014 06:29PM
Quote
Chris Eyre
Realistic power levels on the tallblock 16v / ABA 16v clones are:

- 170bhp for a standard engine with management
- 180 for a standard engine with management and ITBs
- 190 for a standard engine with management, ITBs and mild cams

Onwards and $-upwards from there, 250 is your ceiling. Most wallet bump stops kick in long before that. Big cams, compression, 210 to 230.

260 to 280 quoted on Lehmann's 16v finest, on the finest fuel available, with the most finite service intervals, with some fine Pankl long rods (>159mm), fine titanium narrow stem valves, and short skirt 84mm Mahles, pumping up and down on a 90mm bespoke crank grind, and mapped to the hilt on a Bosch Motorsport ECU.

Nice to think about, thousands to fund.

ECU-wise, Megasquirt, DTA, Haltech. Under-graph torque benefits over carbs all day long. Fuel and spark tables to hand over control to to you!

Realistic? Reliable? Rallyable?

Makes the 240 bhp stock on an S50 swap into a BMW seem pretty nice. Or the 190 or whatever a Merkur is rated at. I'm aiming for 300-350 range on my Merkur but I gotta try to keep up with Kern's S54 330 bhp swapped BMW. I think we are almost out of VWs down here. One really nice one that the guy will probably keep forever and he just does occasional hill climbs with it.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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