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Hoosier Rally Tires

Posted by modernbeat 
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 17, 2014 04:28PM
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hoche
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wvonkessler
Go to 15" - then you can get the "professionals'" take-offs.

Uh...it's not quite that simple. There're good reasons to stick with 14's when your car was designed for 14"s.

Bad injur-near! No dough-nut for you.

Golves were not "designed" for 14" They were DELIVERED in CERTAIN markets with CERTAIN 14" tires...

But other tire/wheel combos in other places..

You could just as easily say they were designed for 13" wheels..
And that would be as silly..

You have a pile of 14" that work---OK run 14"..

And according to what I was told when I was Black_rocket North America---all the tires are made on rally tire casings...



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NoCoast
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 17, 2014 04:47PM
We thought about going down to 15" wheels instead of 17" wheels on the endurance car. Cheaper tires, big unsprung weight savings, and better gearing when required to use stock 3.15 final drive. The weight savings was the big surprise to me.
Brake rotor weights are another that amaze me. I am going to save 4 pounds per corner by using a 1" thickness rotor instead of 1.25".



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wvonkessler
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 17, 2014 05:06PM
Yeah, no oem 4x100 for golves, not: http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/wheels/15-16-VW-wheel-gallery-4x100.htm

As to imprezas, come on



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hoche
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 17, 2014 05:59PM
Well, ok, 'designed for 14"s' isn't quite the right thing to say. But in the Golves there's definitely only a limited amount of space in the wheelwell, so the tire diameter and width is constrained. A 15" with a relatively low height and relatively narrow tread would probably be ok. However, the profiles and aspect ratios for rally tires are generally out of our control, so...if you put 15" rally tires on stock VW 15" wheels, they're gonna rub. Heck even the 14"s do sometimes.

That can be fixed by getting rims with a bigger offset of course. Or by running spacers.

Another thing to consider is wheel weight. The rims are only moderately heavier - generally only about a pound or so - but a 15" rally tire carcass is appreciably heavier than a 14" one. All that's unsprung weight so it's really noticeable. At least it is to me. I can't tell the difference between having a full tank vs a half tank, but I can definitely tell the difference between the OEM teardrop rims and the lightweight American Racing ones.

Next, there's the effective change in final drive ratio. If you've already got a good gearbox, this is pretty negligible, but it needs to be mentioned.

Finally, the larger wheel diameter provides a greater leverage on the hub during lateral hits. I suspect (but can't prove) that this contributes to more beam bending and stub axle fracturing.

So, I'm not saying you can't run 15"s. In fact, there're advantages, like tire availability and options for bigger brakes. It just seemed like Wilson's remark was a flippant off-the-cuff one and I'm saying you gotta give it a little thought.


FWIW, the RX-3 was running 14"s and I'm planning on running 15"s on it in the future.



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wvonkessler
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 17, 2014 07:35PM
We run 15s on the e30s - trade off cheaper tires for whatever loss comes from higher unsprung weight. It is so hard to get cheap rally tires of any size, we probably come out ahead.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 17, 2014 08:32PM
Quote
wvonkessler
We run 15s on the e30s - trade off cheaper tires for whatever loss comes from higher unsprung weight. It is so hard to get cheap rally tires of any size, we probably come out ahead.

Yeah but an E30 is a big enough car you fake it somewhat with the fat (silly fat) tires that all the boys run (so they can pretend to be Dubya Arsey Drivers )....Although something like Michelin's old 15/64 would be more than enough for all the Blue Subie guys and much better for folks with nice RWD cars....

But the dilemma remains for smaller cars like all the Golves and The "new Golf" aka Ford Fiesta...

As Hoche-Mong says, run 14" or run 15" but think about what it means (numbers are good in most cases, and michelin's superb 14-62 x 15 is curiously enough, 62cm high and the common good 14" thing was their 14-60 x 14 so 2 cm shorter..
Shorter tire=shorter gearing= 8) big smiles BUT
2cm shorter means lower as well.... I sure as hell discovered how to make better sump guard after switching to 14-62s from the 65cm tires used previously 3cm and YIKES bang! Boom!...

So no dogma, just depends...used car and ya gots 25 wheels---run 'em..
A new build and you have just 4 whatevers---time to think and plan ahead.



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DG_Rally
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 18, 2014 02:45PM
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KTurner
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Pete
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wvonkessler
Nothing inexpensive about Hoosiers.

If you want inexpensive, you can get that right now, in 14", 15", Michelin L pattern, asymmetrical, directional... http://www.rockymtnautosports.com/black-rocket/

but the 14's aren't on rally cores? we've been running dmack since yoko and silverstone dried up in 14"

I have a set of 14" Black Rockets and they are definitely on rally cores. I think mine have Yoko cores but I'd have to check to be sure.



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Dante
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 18, 2014 02:52PM
What about MaxSports? I know one guy in the CenDiv is running them and he swears he is paying a lot less than Black Rockets.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 18, 2014 02:55PM
Quote
Dante
What about MaxSports? I know one guy in the CenDiv is running them and he swears he is paying a lot less than Black Rockets.

Could be.. But I ax-ed some Engleski rally guys once about Maxxsprouts and they made all kinda faces and hissing and crossing their fingers...
I hadn't a clue so i ax-ed more and they said "rubbish, crap on road car carcasses, punctures if ya stare at 'em hard and make a scary face!"..

Who dafuq knows.



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DG_Rally
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 18, 2014 04:31PM
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Dante
What about MaxSports? I know one guy in the CenDiv is running them and he swears he is paying a lot less than Black Rockets.


Paying less just means you paid less. It does not mean they are any good. I've got 2.5 days of stage rally on my Black Rockets and I'm happy with them so far.



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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 19, 2014 08:37AM
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DG_Rally
I have a set of 14" Black Rockets and they are definitely on rally cores. I think mine have Yoko cores but I'd have to check to be sure.

good to know, thanks. Hopefully we'll make it to enough events this year to wear out what I have.



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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 19, 2014 09:47AM
Quote
hoche
All that's unsprung weight so it's really noticeable. At least it is to me. I can't tell the difference between having a full tank vs a half tank, but I can definitely tell the difference between the OEM teardrop rims and the lightweight American Racing ones.

What do you feel with increased unsprung weight?
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hoche
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 19, 2014 01:34PM
The car feels less nimble. With the lighter wheels, when cornering I feel like I can put the car wherever I want on the road in a corner, and do so at any time. With the heavier wheels it feels more like the car's stuck on a predetermined line and all I can do is vary that a little.

That's overstating it, but you get the idea.



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john vanlandingham
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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 19, 2014 02:51PM
Quote
hoche
The car feels less nimble. With the lighter wheels, when cornering I feel like I can put the car wherever I want on the road in a corner, and do so at any time. With the heavier wheels it feels more like the car's stuck on a predetermined line and all I can do is vary that a little.

That's overstating it, but you get the idea.

Fortunately the old Michelin 14-62 x 15 were designed to be LIGHT and weighed a bit less than the 14-60 x 14.



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Re: Hoosier Rally Tires
December 19, 2014 03:11PM
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john vanlandingham
Fortunately the old Michelin 14-62 x 15 were designed to be LIGHT and weighed a bit less than the 14-60 x 14.

But are NLA



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