Cage X design

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timiacobucci
Well yes, I was trying to not make this more terribly complicated but when you take all of the weld issues into account it's really not the weld joint and gusseting that it the issue. The larger heat affected zone relative to a bigger gusset joint will always be the weak point and failure point in most tubing faluires, if you can weld anyways. Which was part of the reason I was thinking the non linear part of the gusseted x in say the main hoop wouldn't really be the weak point it would appear to be in direct side loading, the thing is the HAZ in the not quite straight tube is still going to be. Likely weaker than a straight tube with a smaller weld.

I just tried to read that and could not really grasp what you are saying.

Have you considered using the "enter" key occasionally?

And organising your writing just a bit..
Heataffected zone is a phrase I have only read from complete and total wankers..

I do have rather limited ecxperience in the area welding of CrMo and thin wall tube things in competition enviroments, only 20 year day to day and rubbing shoulders with top engineers amd desiigners in the world at the time..--granted it was long ago, before everybody who has a key board could look up pointless blobs of information and obsess in meaningless trivialities.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

2nd design is easier

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john vanlandingham

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timiacobucci
Well yes, I was trying to not make this more terribly complicated but when you take all of the weld issues into account it's really not the weld joint and gusseting that it the issue. The larger heat affected zone relative to a bigger gusset joint will always be the weak point and failure point in most tubing faluires, if you can weld anyways. Which was part of the reason I was thinking the non linear part of the gusseted x in say the main hoop wouldn't really be the weak point it would appear to be in direct side loading, the thing is the HAZ in the not quite straight tube is still going to be. Likely weaker than a straight tube with a smaller weld.

I just tried to read that and could not really grasp what you are saying.

Have you considered using the "enter" key occasionally?

And organising your writing just a bit..
Heataffected zone is a phrase I have only read from complete and total wankers..

I do have rather limited ecxperience in the area welding of CrMo and thin wall tube things in competition enviroments, only 20 year day to day and rubbing shoulders with top engineers amd desiigners in the world at the time..--granted it was long ago, before everybody who has a key board could look up pointless blobs of information and obsess in meaningless trivialities.

I'm not denying you have more experience welding. I didn't mean anything special by HAZ, it was sort of a pointless addition honestly.

I just meant if the weld is good, the tube will fail somewhere else in it's base metal. That place is usually in the area right near the weld that got real hot and it is a bit weaker than the rest.

That is also is the location where most of the force concentrates just after a decent gusset, so the 2 causes are sort of working together. It would probably work best if the weakest part is loaded directly and not bent.

Meaning the overall cross section of the intersection of the tubes doesn't matter at all if that is not the point where it will fail. Giving the weakest point the best strength is more important. Keep the tubes straight in direct loading.

I am agreeing with you and agreeing with Chad. My original question seems a bit silly now but this answer was not immediately obvious to me.

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timiacobucci
My question is why are the newer designs not used in any other cage x's other than the door bars?

I have seen option 3 in the main hoop Xs of some of the Fiesta R2s.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

John,

I have a degree in non-destructive testing, specifically weld inspection.

The term HAZ, (heat affected zone) is an ANSI/AWS term used in structural welding..... I'm sure they are all "wankers" as you point out...but a real thing.

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I be sorry as a muthafucka I did, still sorry I did n' hustled ta peep what tha fuck I holla'd a lil' bit better, or at least try to.

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mke723
John,

I have a degree in non-destructive testing, specifically weld inspection.

The term HAZ, (heat affected zone) is an ANSI/AWS term used in structural welding..... I'm sure they are all "wankers" as you point out...but a real thing.

Of course in the real world of men actually welding real structures and parts the worry and need for accurate terms is a real thing..

However

When keyboard fan-bois who shit post nasal drip and blobs of whale shit near seams and at best and for many IF they have never picked up a mig or tig gun begin using terms, it is then bullshit..

For them it is just another acronym to throw around to impress other fan-bois like CAI and DCCD and VVT and Pee Esss Eyes....EJ22!

Perhaps you missed the huge sarcsam when I said I ONLY had about 20 years working on fancy schmatz steel, aluminum and magnesium and in that time welding frequently in all of them...

Context, eh?
In the context of THIS thread making a POS mini-van into a rally car, a project monumental in its folly, everything is bullshit...

KWIMV™*


















*(Know what I mean, Vern?)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.