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E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35

Posted by wvonkessler 
wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
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E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 13, 2015 06:45PM
Looking at early to mid 2000s RWD cars as possible new platforms for reliability/parts availability. Please discuss pros and cons of above vehicles. Extra credit: comment on Hyundai Genesis Coupe.



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 13, 2015 06:50PM
Aren't 350Z and G35 the same chassis?
IS300 are limited suspension travel. I think Tim Taylor evaluated one seriously.



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wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 13, 2015 06:53PM
Yes to the nissans. Tim did, but was not in depth and I don't know enough about suspension to evaluate the IS300. It does make good power and at least one is being rallied in Finland under IS/RS200 guise.



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
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Grant Hughes
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 13, 2015 07:03PM
I'm sure it'd be fine on smoother rallies. Harder on SW or rougher ones.



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Pete
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 13, 2015 07:50PM
Genesis Coupe - simple suspension, very very large car with small interior, having a cage in there would suck



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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 13, 2015 07:55PM
Quote
Pete
Genesis Coupe - simple suspension, very very large car with small interior, having a cage in there would suck

Why is this? I've sat in the BRZ thing, the Genesis, and the 350Z and thought the same thing. Less space then my old MR2 in a car nearly twice the size...
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NoCoast
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 14, 2015 10:21AM
I've always assumed some of it has to do with every pillar having an airbag.

These are main things I ask:
Gearing - decent or silly? Any options to improve? Differentials?
Suspension - Can support increased travel? Adjustability to correct camber when increasing ride height? Design? Stength?

The biggest downside I see in all of these cars is complexity that comes with being a luxury brand, especially when it comes to electrical/wiring.



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Andrew_Frick
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 16, 2015 09:38AM
If you are looking at a genesis then you should add a mustang to your list. What about other rwd cars from this generation. RX-8, Merc C-class(which also came in a small hatchback).

IS300 has very limited production with a manual transmission. It took them a couple of years to bring the manual over here. It it a modern toyota so general reliability should be good.

E46 is a CAN BUS car so that can make wiring more challenging than older cars. Not that it is impossible just adds a layer of complexity that some people don't want to to take on. But it is a BMW so should have good aftermarket support.

Nissan cars are similar architecture but they stretched the car to make room for back seats in the Infiniti. Nissan is 104.3 inches. G35 coupe is 112.2 inches.

Are their brake options for these cars that will fit under 15" wheels? Or are you going to be forced into creating custom brakes.
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Cosworth
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 16, 2015 04:55PM
I think the E46 would be my option. Tons of aftermarket and plenty of then being raced, so there's plenty of data and soliutions already figured out. As Andrew mentioned, its a CAN BUS car but its all been figured out already, CAN BUS to Analog and OBDII links all over the net.

I owned an E46 M3 for 7 years and was super reliable and a strong. And the stock suspension even had more wheel travel than my current rally car!

The 350Z also has very good aftermarket and tooner following, so there will be plenty of knowledge out there.

Did they sell the E46 compact here? That would be the car to have IMO.
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modernbeat
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 17, 2015 08:20AM
One of the issues with the E46 is that there are no good/cheap differnetials or limited slips available without swapping in the entire E46-M3 rear subframe.

The easiest way to get a limited slip (and better diff mounting) is to swap to the E36-M3 differential and build custom mounting ears off the existing subframe. We do this with both the BMW and soon with the Ford 8.8 IRS diff. The Ford parts have cheap ratios and LSDs available.

The E46 also has a weak tub where the rear subframe mounts. That's usually not an issue as it can be corrected easily when prepped for track or rally use. But if not reinforced, it can rip the floor out.

The electrics are a generation ahead of the E46, which is great if you are going to do a high-dollar track build and will be integrating a lot of stuff, but they suck for rally and in-the-field repairs. My recomendation is to completely strip everything excep the wiper controls and rewire the car with simple point-to-point wiring. Run the engine off an aftermarket ECU.

Other than those things, I much prefer the E46 chassis over the E36 for competition. The added track, better engine position, and (for track use) ability to swallow wider tires and slicker aero are great.



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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 18, 2015 02:06AM
Pretty sure the nitro circus RX-8 did terribly.



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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 18, 2015 08:38AM
Jason, out of curiosity what is the typical race weight with a cage for the E46 chassis?

Is there a good 15" wheel brake option?
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Cosworth
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 19, 2015 11:25AM
E46 M3's in Grand Am were 3075lbs race weight but there it was a NASCAR rulebook and the SCCA clubie guys had them down to mid 2700's at the runoffs. I'm sure the non M3's will be very similar weights.

15" brakes will be either stock non M3 or upgraded caliper and disc, similar to what I got for Derick Nelson's car.
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wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 19, 2015 09:41PM
Quote
Cosworth
E46 M3's in Grand Am were 3075lbs race weight but there it was a NASCAR rulebook and the SCCA clubie guys had them down to mid 2700's at the runoffs. I'm sure the non M3's will be very similar weights.

15" brakes will be either stock non M3 or upgraded caliper and disc, similar to what I got for Derick Nelson's car.

2700 lbs and 250 hp
sounds Pretty good.



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
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Re: E46 vs. IS300 vs. 350z v. G35
March 19, 2015 11:03PM
2500 and 450 sounds better. E36 compact with ls2...



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