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1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build

Posted by Hambone1966 
Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 12:13PM
Hi everyone, first time on a message board, first time in a rally. Here is my ride for the 2015 Prescott Rally (I hope). Entering Open RWD.

Engine is strong, cage is in, brand new cobra brake system (converted car to 5 lug), oversize aluminum radiator/electric fan... I guess that's where I am.

Power steering pump and rag joint are shot - current plan is to convert to manual steering with a kit, unless there are better ideas out there/ reasons not to do that.

All the random disconnected wires all over the place bother me, so I'm interested in ideas for that. Painless Wiring? Custom do it yourself?

With all the trim out of it, the car is a rattling, dusty mess to drive. I'm a total newb at racing of any kind. This may just go with the territory, or do you guys weld everything shut to eliminate some of that?

Thanks!

Jason



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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Rallymech
Robert Gobright
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 01:36PM
Ha ha ha!



Robert.

"You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli.
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 01:47PM
What Gobright meant to say is:

"Jason, that cage design is not legal to rally USA, in any way. There are a lot of things that will need to be changed. I suggest you talk to your local/regional scrutineer for whatever rally series you want to race in."

Fox body rally car could work, but it's not an ideal platform. Volvo 240+5.slow would be a lot better.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 02:23PM
Yeah cage is flat illegal....


Maybe the seats too...
Its rough news but nothing you can do...
That's why its important to LOOK AT REAL CARS, and don't cut one tube without checking with a NASA or Wally Amerwica scrutineer.

And with a few simple mods a Mustang can work just as well as any other car saddled with an engine making all the wrong type of power: too much at the beginning of the straight, not enough at the end...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 03:54PM
First I'll apologize for everyone else. You need a few more bars.
First, the main hoop will need the X completed.
What do the roof bars look like?
The door bars willl need one more vertical member. Also the a-pillar reinforcement will need to extend completely to the floor and will need gussetted to the door bars. I'm not sure if it needs to go to all of them or not.
The main hoop is very far inward. It may or may not pass.

Honestly this looks more like a Chumpcar cage than a rally cage. I'd get with a local scrutineer as soon as possible to figure out what can be done to salvage the project, if it can be salvaged.

Kirkey seats are legal provided you have a seat back brace for Rally America. I don't think they are for NASA though.

You probably want to look through:
This is what your builder SHOULD have looked at:
http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/regulation/file/253%20%282015%29.pdf

Here's probably the next thing your builder SHOULD have look at.
http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf

You'll want to look through there and see what you can find.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 04:48PM
Right, should have added - the way it looks, I bought it like that. Very cheap, through a family member that was building it several years ago for the American Iron Series. My cousin and I prefer rally racing, so this is a conversion of sorts. Hearing the things that are wrong actually help out quite a bit. We already have a shop lined up to make cage modifications to it and they'll be working with the scrutineer as they do that so we can get our logbook.



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 05:11PM
I didn't want to bore everyone with the details, but if you've read this far...

My cousin and I kicked around the idea of entering the Prescott Rally in October, just to see if we could pull it off because we've been interested since kids and you only live once.

His stepdad offered us this car at next to nothing and we took him up on it. We are a family of Mustang fans and there are several classics in the family. This was fitting.

My cousin met with a scrutineer and showed him some pictures- the reaction was pretty much the same as the first few comments.

We have a high school friend who owns a company in Phoenix customizing off road trucks and building short course cages. He said he wasn't too worried, would fix it, get the logbook, make it happen.

In the mean time, we're excited and trying to think of other stuff we need to plan to do.

That's where we're really at. This could all end in disaster, but we aren't very far into it financially.



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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Grant Hughes
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 05:12PM
The roof is going to be biggest part. If it has an X or V in the roof you are in good shape. If it has none of just a single bar like an I then you are going to have troubles and probably will need to remove windshield and roof skin to get cage rally legal.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 05:21PM
Sorry forgot to reply about the roof, its just an open box with 45s cutting off the corners as the only extra reinforcement.

This is an Impreza on our friend's website, is this more of a rally cage?



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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Andrew Steere
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 06:22PM
Looking at that cage, probably easiest to start over. But you probably know that. The rally cage pictured is the right direction.

First off, what type of tubing? You want DOM so the weld line in the tube is clean and the tubing more uniform. Some of the stock car groups still allow ERW, Lemons may still as well (but I think Chump says DOM only).

Main hoop should conform to the B-pillars, front to the A-pillars, etc. Main hoop inside the seat frame line is disconcerting.

Can't really see the roof tubing design, but for rally you can't use the halo-type (although I personally like it better in some ways).

Door bars may have been kinda OK if the verticals were lined up and the second a-pillar bar was there, but as it sits, a date with a Sawzall might be the easier thing to do.

Is the Mustang the BEST car for stage rally? No. But if it's something you know mechanically, you can often work around it. You will want to reinforce the body shell (which can be done with seam welding, a good cage, and selective plating), and a suspension that is tough, but compliant (longer travel than you think and sprung softer than you think).

Long story short, if you keep your sarcasm meter well-adjusted, we can and want to help you out!

Lots of good resources here, including (but not limited to) crazy Janvanvurpacrashlandingpads for suspension advice, and self-righteous douche-canoe scrutineers. smiling smiley

Welcome!



Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY
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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 06:43PM
Huhwha? Someone rang?


Your local scrutineer is either Jon Rood, who sometimes pops in here, or Roger Hull, who doesn't.

That cage might possibly be made to work with a few bars added. Can't really tell.

You're going to lose the plastic trim on the rocker panels within the first 3 miles of the first stage, so you might's well plan on taking that off right now.


There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a Mustang as a rally car. There are better cars, but people have pounded on Mustangs before and there's not much simpler than a Fox body.



Self-righteous douche canoe
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alkun
Albert Kun
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 27, 2015 11:31PM
It'll be great, we've been needing someone to show us that the fox can rally.

I personally think rallying a car you are familiar with is better than a car that ideal for rally, at least starting out.

Keep the power steering.

Yes the second picture is just how a rally cage should look.

A roof X could be added by cutting some strategic holes in the roof to weld through, then patching them back up (remember, ugly cars are faster)

Plan on spending some energy making bash guards under the motor and tank.
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jrally
Jon Rood
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 28, 2015 10:11AM
I'm happy to take a look at the car, so we can get you going in the right direction from the start. I thought I was told the cage was of tubing that's too small, but from looking at the pictures, it looks like it's 1-3/4" OD, hopefully .120" wall. Get a hold of me if you want to meet up to talk about the car or have me come take a look.

-Jon
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 28, 2015 01:54PM
Hi Jon, you must be who I was originally going to go talk to with Justin! He didn't tell me much of what you said other than the cage wasn't really close to being right. I was told it was .120 wall. We only physically got our hands on the car over this past weekend so no wasted time. I'll get your contact info from Justin. Thanks!



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
Join Date: 04/08/2015
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
April 28, 2015 02:10PM
Quote
alkun
It'll be great, we've been needing someone to show us that the fox can rally.

I personally think rallying a car you are familiar with is better than a car that ideal for rally, at least starting out.

Keep the power steering.

I'm excited to try, but we'll see!

Regarding the power steering, can you go further? I'm used to the manual racks in my classic, they suck at parking, but anything over 25mph feels good to me, lots of feedback... I figured that on the gravel that would only be better. Is it an endurance thing? Too tiring to drive the stages with manual steering?



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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