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1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build

Posted by Hambone1966 
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Tony Wood
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 01, 2015 07:02PM
It's totally your choice but don't dismiss headwing seats. My codrive and I are both over 6'5" and 220ish. We love our OMP HTE XL headwing seats. No problem getting in and out, even w/o a removable steeringwheel and in a hurry. Yes, I hung up my HANS... on the cage,not the seat.

HANS only limit head travel in back to front direction. They do next to nothing side to side. The annoyance of my head ping-ponging in the seat on a rough stage just reminds me my neck would be really sore without it.

Just 0.02
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alkun
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 01, 2015 08:04PM
I have those seats too and really like them.
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 04, 2015 06:57PM
Here's my latest update... I picked up the Fox from American Motorsports today. We got a call from the owner, Kacy, who said he was losing sleep over a few extra tweaks he wanted to add to the cage. AFTER it was bought and paid for, you can't beat that. My co-driver pulled the trigger on some really cheap Futuras for us, so money ended up making that decision for me.

Last weekend we added an LX body kit we found used, and tore a donor '89 GT all to shreds picking up a few missing essentials like wiper motor, spare body parts, a few other small things.

This weekend I'll be adding the aluminum dash to replace our hacked out one, drilling holes in that and adding new gauges. I'll re-wire the whole thing with an off road racing harness we found online as part of that project.

At that point we'll probably have another meeting and arrange times/monies to complete:

New rack, springs, spare wheels, tires, custom shocks we have lined up, SFI foam, HANS, harnesses, skid plate, lights, paint, fire suppression... the last 3 will be free through some sponsorship (family friends that own businesses in those areas). We've got our eyes on some nice coil over suspension stuff, but waiting on price/time frame to see if it's feasible this year.

I'm sure I forgot some, but that's the basics of where we are. 8 weekends left to go.



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 04, 2015 07:01PM
given any thought all all to addressing the single biggest and obvious flaw in the car: the lack of rear wheel travel?

Ain't painted inside yet, still have time....

Its real simple..
been done for 40 years before on 10s of thousands of other rwd cars..



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 04, 2015 07:13PM
Definitely interested in doing that 100%. The guy that built the cage does baja and he is working with his suspension guy to come up with an answer to that. The grading job they do on the Prescott roads seems to make the course less challenging on that particular front, but I only can tell what I see on youtube videos at this point. It's high desert, pretty flat dirt roads, not alot of tree roots and stuff I imagine they have in the NW or NE... but again I don't know until I'm out there.

So my questions are - John if you were going up there with us in October, what would you do to the car for that? 90% of what we're doing is just to make sure we're there... get some experience, have fun with this thing we've been sweating over. But beyond cage, seats, safety, tires, etc my absolute number one priority is with that suspension. Your advice doesn't fall on deaf ears.



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 04, 2015 07:41PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
OK well think about the length 26.65" c-c and an eyelet top BEFORE the rar back stays and diagonals are in cause those tubes+ one up from the base of the main hoop, OUGHT to go to the towers.

It was already too late to do that when you told me that and I didn't want to make a big deal at the time because it was a friend.

I guess what you'd do is cut the tops off the rear shock towers, increase their height, remove/realign the rear back stay to the top of the taller towers, and fit a 26.65" shock in there? I'm not sure what that will cost me or if I can do that and everything else, but it's worth an ask.



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 04, 2015 09:16PM
Quote
Hambone1966
Quote
john vanlandingham
OK well think about the length 26.65" c-c and an eyelet top BEFORE the rar back stays and diagonals are in cause those tubes+ one up from the base of the main hoop, OUGHT to go to the towers.

It was already too late to do that when you told me that and I didn't want to make a big deal at the time because it was a friend.

I guess what you'd do is cut the tops off the rear shock towers, increase their height, remove/realign the rear back stay to the top of the taller towers, and fit a 26.65" shock in there? I'm not sure what that will cost me or if I can do that and everything else, but it's worth an ask.

I think it would be very easy and very cheap to chop the tops of the little tower stumps , raise them, finish to accept the nice spherical bearing ends that come in the shocks---once you get the 15mm ID bearings...and then add a little stay or whatever from whatever to support the tubes...

See in any RWD thing if we have travel, we can trade travel for grip...Grip is the paramount concern on gravel, bar none..and that's with sensible engines....the more brutal initial yank is, the bigger the problem... (hence the folly of big output and V8s fall into the catagory of Big Yank-you-back)

Michael Hoche-Mong who lurks around here sometimes has a "loaner" shock i sent him so he could do some dimensional stuff on his Maz-dog RX3 Resurrection project (could we get an Angelic Choir here? Anybody?)
You can barrow it if you want.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 05, 2015 10:13AM
I'd love to size up your loaner shock, that would be great. Are we talking about adding enough travel that the wheel wells would start to be a problem? Would those need to be cut out or modified too?



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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Aaron Luptak
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 05, 2015 10:49AM
have you already addressed the 'quadrabind' rear arms?


Not sure how big a difference long shocks, towers, etc. are going to make while you're still running stubby little links at a 45 degree angle.

(I do understand the looking-forward-to-a-proper-4-link aspect...)



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http://www.utahrallygroup.com
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Hambone1966
Jason Hamilton
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1990 Ford Mustang 5.0


Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 05, 2015 11:03AM
What about something like this?



Jason Hamilton
Phoenix, Arizona

1990 Ford Mustang 5.0

It never troubles the wolf how many the sheep may be.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 05, 2015 11:23AM
Hurst built his as follows:

Quote

From Hurst...

Strength-wise, the fox unibodies are pretty bad.


The strut towers must be reinforced and tied to the firewall or cage
The area where the "frame rail" portion of the underhood unibody terminates at the firewall must be reinforced with outriggers from the cage
The upper rear suspension mounts must be reinforced by outriggers from the main hoop, bolted though.
The lower rear suspension "torque boxes" must be reinforced by outriggers from the cage or weld-in subframe connectors, or both


Even with this all done, and the 351W based engine that added 150lbs over the 5.0, the car weighed the same as an SP Subaru.


If I had to do it over again, I would have stuck with the 5.0 based engine at about 375HP instead of the larger, heavier engine at 440.


Stock V8 front springs on the stock front arms with hard bushings and good moog ball joints. 12" 200lb coil over springs on the KYB adjustable struts, and a 4cyl front sway bar.


The rear suspension was stock geometry, the key was some trick experimental upper axle bushings from Ford. They were cast rubber instead of pressed. The OE pressed ones last about one stage, and the aftermarket hard bushings don't have enough give for what theses arms must do, and everything will break with hard bushings. For lower arms, I used drag race parts that had hard bushings on the axle end and heims on the body end. There was no axle hop with this set-up, but there was quite a bit with the stock parts.


The rear shock were Afco street-stock oval track shocks, with monroe replacement "traction shocks", cut down moog cargo-coil springs from the little LTD (Fox body) wagon, no rear sway bar.


I used Lincoln Mk7 front brakes and master cylinder, and Thunderbird turbo coupe rear rotors with GM metric RWD A-body front calipers on the rear with afco brackets and a pressure limiting bias control. The entire rear brake set-up cost $150 using new or factory rebuilt parts.

Seems like that would be a cheap and easy starting point and then you can get more proper once you have first or second rally out of the way.



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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john vanlandingham
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 05, 2015 12:58PM
Quote
Aaron Luptak
have you already addressed the 'quadrabind' rear arms?


Not sure how big a difference long shocks, towers, etc. are going to make while you're still running stubby little links at a 45 degree angle.

(I do understand the looking-forward-to-a-proper-4-link aspect...)

This.
Good god its as bad as a 1st gen RX7.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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tdrrally
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 05, 2015 01:41PM
look at the steeda four link
with an sn95 rear axle or disk brake set up

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/images/a/cms/48186/48186.jpg



I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 01:42PM by tdrrally.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 05, 2015 01:53PM
Quote
tdrrally
look at the steeda four link
with an sn95 rear axle or disk brake set up

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/images/a/cms/48186/48186.jpg

What the fuck is that shit?
You are a deep cover troll.. nobody linking to that can be serious.

Good god.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Aaron Luptak
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Re: 1990 Mustang 5.0 Rally Build
August 05, 2015 02:00PM
Quote
tdrrally
look at the steeda four link
with an sn95 rear axle or disk brake set up

http://www.autotraderclassics.com/images/a/cms/48186/48186.jpg

http://www.steeda.com/steeda-mustang-5-link-rear-suspension-system-555-2501/

for $1300 it had better come with a 'happy ending'...

(for rally use, I'd be pretty skeptical of the bolt-on mounts for the new upper arms.)



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