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Audi CQ Rally Build

Posted by dalspaugh 
aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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Location: Pendleton OR
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Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
November 11, 2015 11:50PM
Well, after my ever so slight off at mt hood, I've found that my drivers front wheel will not center in the wheel well. Replaced the mangled ball joint tonight to find it still way out of wack. Further inspection revealed separation of the pinch joint and wimpy spot welds of the fender well to the unibody just in front of the back subframe bolt. The only reason I looked here is because mr Todd Lengacher said he'd had trouble in this area on one of the rallx cars.

I'll put it on a hoist tomorrow and try to snap some pics, but lets start planning for some reinforcement of your car right now! this wasn't an area that I'd even looked at when I did some minimal stitching.

There is a chance the subframe is tweaked as well will have to swap it out and see what things look like.
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
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Location: Boston, MA
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Posts: 66

Rally Car:
'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
November 12, 2015 08:08AM
F****** f*** ... I am never going to finish this car... eye rolling smiley

Fine. Consider this topic open for discussion. Let's talk through some of the hoops I'm gonna have to jump through here...

Option A - Do it the right way
Prep
  1. Make a spit for the car so that Dave doesn't hate his life trying to get the globs of undercoating off
  2. Remove the doors, Mount the car to the spit
  3. Ask kindly for John's LNDR (http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,6465,page=3)
  4. Rent a tank of Liquid Nitrogen (maybe the most fun sounding part of this...) hope that its not 500 pounds of it... in the dead of friggen winter...
  5. Use the LNDR to get the shit off the bottom and the seals
  6. Prep again by grinding and cleaning planned welded areas (of course, burning through my already quite pretty painted areas... (this is why we can't have nice things)
Welding
Using my cute 110V Lincoln MIGer, weld something like 400 stitch welds, run my little baby tank out of gas like 8 times and prolly toast this cute li'l welder.

Finish
Keep the areas clean until the spring where it would actually be warm enough to paint them...

Option B - "Do what I can - easily"

I'm thinking this gets me away from having to deal with all the crud under neath the car... Basically do anything in the engine bay since there's currently no engine in there... Do some of the floor pan / Door sill areas from the top that are currently very easy to get to.


This is craziness... Isn't one of those rally sayings something like: "get on stage as quickly as possible"? this seams (pun intended) to be going in the opposite direction of that...

Real questions about this whole thing:
Does this list actually capture anything remotely close to what this job entails?
How many small children am I going to want to kill doing this job?
How many small children am I going to want to save after first few rallies?
My garage only has 110, is this a real problem?
I don't have funds for a "real" welder, is this a problem?
I'm an amateur welder at best, is this a problem?
Liquid Nitrogen, is it fun?
Am I going to lose my mind building this car? Answer: Yes



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
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Location: Boston, MA
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Posts: 66

Rally Car:
'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
November 12, 2015 08:15AM
Also, I'm just going to put this Exploded Parts diagram page here for reference

http://audi.7zap.com/en/usa/audi+coupe+quattro/couq/1991-141/8/



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
November 12, 2015 09:34AM
Option B. Well thought out option b

110 welder should be ideal for the job. Keep fire extinguisher handy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2015 09:40AM by aj_johnson.
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vbares
Vittorio Bares
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Location: Londonderry, NH
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Audi 4k (3b conversion)


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
November 12, 2015 09:48AM
This is a point of reference - it is only 1 point - so major decisions should not be made solely on that 1 point. Important is to understand the difference between the b2 and b3 builds - which I do not.

My 4k has 43 documented rallies on it - some dnf's, mostly mechanical, but certainly I can see that there were a couple of significant repairs made to the shell prior to my acquiring it.

It is not seam welded.
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
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'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
November 12, 2015 09:53AM
Quote
vbares
This is a point of reference - it is only 1 point - so major decisions should not be made solely on that 1 point. Important is to understand the difference between the b2 and b3 builds - which I do not.

My 4k has 43 documented rallies on it - some dnf's, mostly mechanical, but certainly I can see that there were a couple of significant repairs made to the shell prior to my acquiring it.

It is not seam welded.

My understanding is that the B3 is better chassis than the B2.

Even when this car was fully loaded, I've never been able to get to sit perfectly on 4 jack stands. this is obviously the fault of my garage but it should say something to the stiffness of the chassis.

But regardless, AJ's chassis is quite similar to the one I'm using, should be the same everything forward of the floor pan...

If I go option B... I guess I could use Dry Ice to conquer the body adhesive crap? that stuff looks mighty durable and it was slowing down my fancy ass dewault grinder whenever I touched it while taking out the vibration dampening material



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
November 12, 2015 11:14AM
Death ray
Miller 110v with 030 wire will not sweat too much if the power supply is good ie not 16g wires in the wall and at the end of the 100ft extention cord with 18g wires.
Good juice to welder and 030 and everything will go fine

Death ray cause those Howdis use the same rubberoid undercoating crap like the Xratyties do and that stuff is a major pain.. Dry ice, no its lame--liquid contacts the surface, piles of ice may NOT contact may be 2-5 mm off the surface so it has air insulation.. Liquid N is so cool its KEWL.
And quick....
Time is money.

You could do LOCAL welds on stressed areas..



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
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Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
November 12, 2015 03:10PM
got it on a hoist, looks like the majority of separation came from a direct hit. A arm was twisted, as was ball joint, subframe still appears square.

The separation of the seam between the frame rail and fender liner will get some add'l welding on both sides of the car other than that I'm repairing as needed.

I may have been a little peeved when posting earlier. If you decide not to stitch I would keep an eye on this particular seam. Todd was telling me one of the rallyx cars has managed to wrinkle that pretty good.
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
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'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
February 22, 2016 01:50PM
Alright, getting back at this thing. Holidays and a old german DD have robbed me of my last few months! Want to get ya'lls opinion on some proposed welding I'm doing. I'm definitely looking at option B here.

Focused on the front end right now because it means I don't have to deal with liquid N and its the part of the car gets the most stress and it may soon be holding up the engine going back in the car (what a crazy thought)

red lines are weld lines, blue are joints that I'm planning to leave











Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
February 22, 2016 04:13PM
Quote
dalspaugh
Alright, getting back at this thing. Holidays and a old german DD have robbed me of my last few months! Want to get ya'lls opinion on some proposed welding I'm doing. I'm definitely looking at option B here.

Focused on the front end right now because it means I don't have to deal with liquid N and its the part of the car gets the most stress and it may soon be holding up the engine going back in the car (what a crazy thought)

red lines are weld lines, blue are joints that I'm planning to leave






1/2" weld every 1 1/2" seams and joints...that's the norm...The welding goes quickly, the cleaning...not so quick.. But is IS an amazing difference when done.






John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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alkun
Albert Kun
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volvo 242


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
February 22, 2016 08:57PM
That blue line is the one you really need to do. Also should do a tube from strut tops stitched along the firewall.
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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Location: Pendleton OR
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Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
February 22, 2016 10:14PM
Quote
alkun
That blue line is the one you really need to do. Also should do a tube from strut tops stitched along the firewall.

I hid this tube on the rain tray side.
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
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'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
February 23, 2016 07:24AM
not totally what I wanted to hear about the blue lines although I can't say I wasn't partially already thinking it...

In the continued spirit of not wanting to go through hell to remove the chassis adhesive over those blue lines... what about laying in 1/2" x 1/2" angle and then welding the two sides??



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
February 23, 2016 08:50AM
Quote
dalspaugh
not totally what I wanted to hear about the blue lines although I can't say I wasn't partially already thinking it...

In the continued spirit of not wanting to go through hell to remove the chassis adhesive over those blue lines... what about laying in 1/2" x 1/2" angle and then welding the two sides??

16g would do fine for the L strip. I do that along the floor to sill junction--a wek and sometime sketchy area.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
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Location: Boston, MA
Join Date: 04/30/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 66

Rally Car:
'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
February 23, 2016 12:46PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
dalspaugh
not totally what I wanted to hear about the blue lines although I can't say I wasn't partially already thinking it...

In the continued spirit of not wanting to go through hell to remove the chassis adhesive over those blue lines... what about laying in 1/2" x 1/2" angle and then welding the two sides??

16g would do fine for the L strip. I do that along the floor to sill junction--a wek and sometime sketchy area.

Hmm... I'm not seeing any angle thinner than 1/8" thk. Would make for some poor welding... .125" angel to (probably) .060" chassis steel....

Are you talking about 16 gauge flat strip John?



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
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