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Audi CQ Rally Build

Posted by dalspaugh 
aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Professional Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 19, 2015 07:33PM
John, those are off the shelf bilstein valving numbers as far as I know. or were a few years back.
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deaner
Dane Aura
Mega Moderator
Location: Caldwell, ID
Join Date: 07/07/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 337

Rally Car:
PS4 controller


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 19, 2015 07:33PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Been busy reading all abut how America's financial system "works" so not paying too careful attention but I thought I'sd say:
There are always alternatives..

A sinmple one would to be to order some bronze and make some press fit bushings:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=10490&step=4&showunits=inches&id=300&top_cat=850

1.5" long x say 10 so 15-16"
or since 2 of you guys need it 36"
12 inch length - $45.92
24 inch length - $88.20
36 inch length - $124.08

make it about 002-0025" bigger than the carefully measured ID of the OEM tubes and give the leading edge a good 45* chamfer so when you press them in it goes in good and the sharp edge doesn't just shave the bronze off.
ID should be maybe taken out to 020 less than 40mm/ 1.574" so 1.554"

You'll need toi find some scrap aluminum to make a good fitting pressing tool.

Press in so the bottom of the lower bush is in about 4 or so inches from the top of the tube.

Then, get some steel and make a bottom roughly (+- say 010) the size of the ID of the bottom of the strut tube..Make it about 7,92mm thick just to grab a size outta the air. While in the chuck drill and tap to M10 x 1..
Need 4 per car
Get the bottom out of the OEM tube somehow.. (chuck it up and bore is the easiest)

next hone the ID of the bushes to about 001-002 clearance with a decent dingle ball hone, checking often for nice fit

Now with the inserts you bought and machined the tops, insert the insert into the tube so its in about 4"--and that the part sticking out is at least what the travel is..
Now look up the bottom of the tube.
That's where your new bottom must be welded in..Tape measure to the bottom of the rod then add thel ength of the threaded part of the rod--about 3/4".

Done with the insert and strut body, now the major question is finding a durable strut top mount..The OEM stuff being garbage.

There are always alternatives.

Americas financial system...good luck!I just got home from a 9 year old girls birthday party at a pool where I chased my toddler and 9 year old around for 4 hours. My literary comprehension is shit right now lol. I'll have to reread your post a handful of times after the ringing in my ears subsides. Hotel pools and their acoustics... Ha! At the moment I'm not picking up what you're laying down exactly.
For top mounts, the only two worth a damn anymore are Compbrakes and AK Motorsport mounts. The Compbrakes have been around awhile and I've never heard of a failure, even rallying. The solid AK mounts are new to the U.S. market, but according to a bunch of euro rally guys, they're also indestructible. As they are in the "catalog," 17mm is the largest standard pin size they offer. Thoughts on turning the bilstein Motorsport upright pins to accept mounts such as these?

http://www.compbrake.com/product/audi-coupe-cabriolet-top-mount-each/

https://www.akmotorsport.net/product-category/top-mounts/
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,996

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 19, 2015 09:33PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
John, ya gotta start using some better bronze mang! Step up to an aluminum or manganese bronze, that's what all the fancy motorcycle bushings are.
It sucks to machine, but it lasts SO MUCH LONGER when it's not made from cheese...

The bushings last for years...years of 4-5 events/yr with service.. OK? Better to change bushings occasionally than have them get crap jammed into the surface and rip the inserts up.
I use this because i was told by a fellow named Janne Sellholm to use it.. and I'm going to guess but I betcha he's been making hundreds of struts since a few decades before you were born, there is a small but not insignificant chance that Sellholm MIGHT know just a tad more about this subject than you..so I will trust him and observed experience in practice.

There is also a cost consideration between one off playing around and production of series of this, the thing you do again and again and again: no consideration of cost vs benefit...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
Professional Moderator
Location: Portland , Or
Join Date: 08/15/2010
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 1,208

Rally Car:
MK2 VW GTI



Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 19, 2015 11:45PM
Quote
john vanlandingham

The bushings last for years...years of 4-5 events/yr with service.. OK?

Really? There was play in the bushings on Arnaud's car during the 1st event... Then we added more bushings (That we got from you), and that only lasted 2 events before they got all klunky again. That's 2 sets of bushings in a year. Maybe Derek just drives the Volvo that hard.
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
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Location: Boston, MA
Join Date: 04/30/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 66

Rally Car:
'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 07:57AM
Quote
NoCoast
You are trying to race an old Audi. Thus, you are not going to win ever, you are already going to be fighting reliability issues, over heating and a plethora of other issues.

Spoiler alert over here... jeeze

Anyway, thanks for the... advice everyone smileys with beer

(asks for $0.02 - get's 87 deutschmarks)



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Senior Moderator
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 6,740

Rally Car:
Merkur



Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 08:46AM
Quote
dalspaugh
Quote
NoCoast
You are trying to race an old Audi. Thus, you are not going to win ever, you are already going to be fighting reliability issues, over heating and a plethora of other issues.

Spoiler alert over here... jeeze

Anyway, thanks for the... advice everyone smileys with beer

(asks for $0.02 - get's 87 deutschmarks)

Did I finish that statement with, you'll have a ton of fun doing it!



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
Mega Moderator
Location: Boston, MA
Join Date: 04/30/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 66

Rally Car:
'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 09:42AM
Quote
NoCoast
Quote
dalspaugh
Quote
NoCoast
You are trying to race an old Audi. Thus, you are not going to win ever, you are already going to be fighting reliability issues, over heating and a plethora of other issues.

Spoiler alert over here... jeeze

Anyway, thanks for the... advice everyone smileys with beer

(asks for $0.02 - get's 87 deutschmarks)

Did I finish that statement with, you'll have a ton of fun doing it!

But I thought all there was to fun was winning! smileys with beer



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
Please Login or Register to post a reply
aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Professional Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 11:54AM
Get's even more fun if you remove a couple of driveshafts.
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
Mega Moderator
Location: Boston, MA
Join Date: 04/30/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 66

Rally Car:
'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 01:02PM
Quote
aj_johnson
Get's even more fun if you remove a couple of driveshafts.

Going to the darkside over there AJ?



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Professional Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 01:05PM
Been on the darkside since first startup... RWD 5cyl turdboat
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dalspaugh
David Alspaugh
Mega Moderator
Location: Boston, MA
Join Date: 04/30/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 66

Rally Car:
'91 Audi Coupe Quattro


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 01:11PM
Quote
aj_johnson
Been on the darkside since first startup... RWD 5cyl turdboat

How do you even do that in one of these cars?



Blog about my history with the rally car written for non-automotive folk: davescq.wordpress.com
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Elite Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,996

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 01:36PM
Quote
deaner
Quote
john vanlandingham
Been busy reading all abut how America's financial system "works" so not paying too careful attention but I thought I'sd say:
There are always alternatives..

A sinmple one would to be to order some bronze and make some press fit bushings:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=10490&step=4&showunits=inches&id=300&top_cat=850

1.5" long x say 10 so 15-16"
or since 2 of you guys need it 36"
12 inch length - $45.92
24 inch length - $88.20
36 inch length - $124.08

make it about 002-0025" bigger than the carefully measured ID of the OEM tubes and give the leading edge a good 45* chamfer so when you press them in it goes in good and the sharp edge doesn't just shave the bronze off.
ID should be maybe taken out to 020 less than 40mm/ 1.574" so 1.554"

You'll need toi find some scrap aluminum to make a good fitting pressing tool.

Press in so the bottom of the lower bush is in about 4 or so inches from the top of the tube.

Then, get some steel and make a bottom roughly (+- say 010) the size of the ID of the bottom of the strut tube..Make it about 7,92mm thick just to grab a size outta the air. While in the chuck drill and tap to M10 x 1..
Need 4 per car
Get the bottom out of the OEM tube somehow.. (chuck it up and bore is the easiest)

next hone the ID of the bushes to about 001-002 clearance with a decent dingle ball hone, checking often for nice fit

Now with the inserts you bought and machined the tops, insert the insert into the tube so its in about 4"--and that the part sticking out is at least what the travel is..
Now look up the bottom of the tube.
That's where your new bottom must be welded in..Tape measure to the bottom of the rod then add thel ength of the threaded part of the rod--about 3/4".

Done with the insert and strut body, now the major question is finding a durable strut top mount..The OEM stuff being garbage.

There are always alternatives.

Americas financial system...good luck!I just got home from a 9 year old girls birthday party at a pool where I chased my toddler and 9 year old around for 4 hours. My literary comprehension is shit right now lol. I'll have to reread your post a handful of times after the ringing in my ears subsides. Hotel pools and their acoustics... Ha! At the moment I'm not picking up what you're laying down exactly.
For top mounts, the only two worth a damn anymore are Compbrakes and AK Motorsport mounts. The Compbrakes have been around awhile and I've never heard of a failure, even rallying. The solid AK mounts are new to the U.S. market, but according to a bunch of euro rally guys, they're also indestructible. As they are in the "catalog," 17mm is the largest standard pin size they offer. Thoughts on turning the bilstein Motorsport upright pins to accept mounts such as these?

http://www.compbrake.com/product/audi-coupe-cabriolet-top-mount-each/

https://www.akmotorsport.net/product-category/top-mounts/
Any?

Always gotta be careful asking me about any thoughts.

Instant first thought: hack off the top of the towers, weld on a plate with three holes drilled to Subarus bolt circle...plate could cust under $10, and nSubie top mounts in better wrecking yards could be about $10/pair.
Simple.
Easy
Cheap
Works good

None of which could be said for the Audi junk.

Only drawback is it requires a horrible thing: thinking and even worse (gasp!) work.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Professional Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 04:03PM
Quote
dalspaugh
Quote
aj_johnson
Been on the darkside since first startup... RWD 5cyl turdboat

How do you even do that in one of these cars?

Yank the front shafts. Stick an axle stub in the hub to keep the bearing together, and either weld the center diff of your 01A or swap in an 016 from a 4k (locking center diff) and shorter gears.

B3 coupe quattro- 20v 90-91 trann case 01A- torsen center differential
1st-3.545
2nd-2.105
3rd- 1.429
4th-1.029
5th- .838
final 4.11:1

B2-4kquattro -1984-tranny style 016-locker center differential
1st-3.600
2nd-2.125
3rd-1.458
4th-1.071
5th-.829
final- 4.11:1

John, the subaru tops are on this winters project list. Gonna try to get some more caster out of the deal at the same time.
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deaner
Dane Aura
Mega Moderator
Location: Caldwell, ID
Join Date: 07/07/2013
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 337

Rally Car:
PS4 controller


Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 08:54PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
deaner
Quote
john vanlandingham
Been busy reading all abut how America's financial system "works" so not paying too careful attention but I thought I'sd say:
There are always alternatives..

A sinmple one would to be to order some bronze and make some press fit bushings:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=10490&step=4&showunits=inches&id=300&top_cat=850

1.5" long x say 10 so 15-16"
or since 2 of you guys need it 36"
12 inch length - $45.92
24 inch length - $88.20
36 inch length - $124.08

make it about 002-0025" bigger than the carefully measured ID of the OEM tubes and give the leading edge a good 45* chamfer so when you press them in it goes in good and the sharp edge doesn't just shave the bronze off.
ID should be maybe taken out to 020 less than 40mm/ 1.574" so 1.554"

You'll need toi find some scrap aluminum to make a good fitting pressing tool.

Press in so the bottom of the lower bush is in about 4 or so inches from the top of the tube.

Then, get some steel and make a bottom roughly (+- say 010) the size of the ID of the bottom of the strut tube..Make it about 7,92mm thick just to grab a size outta the air. While in the chuck drill and tap to M10 x 1..
Need 4 per car
Get the bottom out of the OEM tube somehow.. (chuck it up and bore is the easiest)

next hone the ID of the bushes to about 001-002 clearance with a decent dingle ball hone, checking often for nice fit

Now with the inserts you bought and machined the tops, insert the insert into the tube so its in about 4"--and that the part sticking out is at least what the travel is..
Now look up the bottom of the tube.
That's where your new bottom must be welded in..Tape measure to the bottom of the rod then add thel ength of the threaded part of the rod--about 3/4".

Done with the insert and strut body, now the major question is finding a durable strut top mount..The OEM stuff being garbage.

There are always alternatives.

Americas financial system...good luck!I just got home from a 9 year old girls birthday party at a pool where I chased my toddler and 9 year old around for 4 hours. My literary comprehension is shit right now lol. I'll have to reread your post a handful of times after the ringing in my ears subsides. Hotel pools and their acoustics... Ha! At the moment I'm not picking up what you're laying down exactly.
For top mounts, the only two worth a damn anymore are Compbrakes and AK Motorsport mounts. The Compbrakes have been around awhile and I've never heard of a failure, even rallying. The solid AK mounts are new to the U.S. market, but according to a bunch of euro rally guys, they're also indestructible. As they are in the "catalog," 17mm is the largest standard pin size they offer. Thoughts on turning the bilstein Motorsport upright pins to accept mounts such as these?

http://www.compbrake.com/product/audi-coupe-cabriolet-top-mount-each/

https://www.akmotorsport.net/product-category/top-mounts/
Any?

Always gotta be careful asking me about any thoughts.

Instant first thought: hack off the top of the towers, weld on a plate with three holes drilled to Subarus bolt circle...plate could cust under $10, and nSubie top mounts in better wrecking yards could be about $10/pair.
Simple.
Easy
Cheap
Works good

None of which could be said for the Audi junk.

Only drawback is it requires a horrible thing: thinking and even worse (gasp!) work.

But, but.. I never asked "any...." smiling smiley
I've thought about the possibility of using Subaru stuff, but at this point in what I have going on with two builds, that type of project on top, isn't in the cards. So say for theorizings sake, turning down a bilstein 50 pin to run a mount(17mm) I posted wouldn't be an issue?

AJ, have you measured to see if a subaru mount will even fit up in the tower? It's been a few months since I've had my face up there but I remember it being tight.
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Senior Moderator
Location: Denver, CO
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 6,740

Rally Car:
Merkur



Re: Audi CQ Rally Build
August 20, 2015 09:44PM
Quote
aj_johnson
Quote
dalspaugh
Quote
aj_johnson
Been on the darkside since first startup... RWD 5cyl turdboat

How do you even do that in one of these cars?

Yank the front shafts. Stick an axle stub in the hub to keep the bearing together, and either weld the center diff of your 01A or swap in an 016 from a 4k (locking center diff) and shorter gears.

B3 coupe quattro- 20v 90-91 trann case 01A- torsen center differential
1st-3.545
2nd-2.105
3rd- 1.429
4th-1.029
5th- .838
final 4.11:1

B2-4kquattro -1984-tranny style 016-locker center differential
1st-3.600
2nd-2.125
3rd-1.458
4th-1.071
5th-.829
final- 4.11:1

John, the subaru tops are on this winters project list. Gonna try to get some more caster out of the deal at the same time.

If I hadn't seen it in person, I'd never believe you were married with all that perversion going on. winking smiley



Grant Hughes
http://rally.build
Denver, CO
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