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2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To

Posted by Robert Culbertson 
NoCoast
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
May 22, 2015 03:55PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Meh, there are turbo miatas with more power/torque out there with success running the 6spd.

I wasn't aware of any Miatas running stage rally.
Define success? Driven to car shows and on dynos? Putzed around during track days? Autocross?



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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
May 22, 2015 06:27PM
Quote
NoCoast
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Meh, there are turbo miatas with more power/torque out there with success running the 6spd.

I wasn't aware of any Miatas running stage rally.
Define success? Driven to car
shows and on dynos? Putzed around during track days? Autocross?

Definitely referring to pavement pounders who most likely putzed around at a track day.
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 12:55PM
Junk yard replacement 6spd trans started making terrible noises after Idaho (installed just before the rally). Sounds mostly like bearing growl. T5 swap it is.

After looking into the exploderated 6spd from Olympus the damage was only on the 3rd and 4th gear sets. The 4th gear set were missing all of the teeth, and 3rd was missing most of the teeth.

I also noticed that the bearing support plate was cracked and the main shaft was able to flop around. I'm not sure if the bearing support broke and caused the gear teeth failure, or the force of a spare tooth getting smooshed between two gears over stressed the bearing support plate and cracked it.

Either way, 6spd miata gearbox seems like it's not up to the task. Tried and true T5 it is.
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 03:04PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Junk yard replacement 6spd trans started making terrible noises after Idaho (installed just before the rally). Sounds mostly like bearing growl. T5 swap it is.

After looking into the exploderated 6spd from Olympus the damage was only on the 3rd and 4th gear sets. The 4th gear set were missing all of the teeth, and 3rd was missing most of the teeth.

I also noticed that the bearing support plate was cracked and the main shaft was able to flop around. I'm not sure if the bearing support broke and caused the gear teeth failure, or the force of a spare tooth getting smooshed between two gears over stressed the bearing support plate and cracked it.

Either way, 6spd miata gearbox seems like it's not up to the task. Tried and true T5 it is.

Too bad everybody knew that like 5-10 years ago...

Meh, its only money.



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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 03:25PM
Good to know. Bit of a bummer as the six speed aspect could have been nice.
What do you use for a Bellhousing for T5 to Ecoboost?
Hydraulic or cable clutch?
Which flywheel/clutch?



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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 06:05PM
Quote
NoCoast
Good to know. Bit of a bummer as the six speed aspect could have been nice.
What do you use for a Bellhousing for T5 to Ecoboost?
Hydraulic or cable clutch?
Which flywheel/clutch?

The 6spd is nice, but it results in a lot more shifting since the gears are much shorter. The ecoboost has enough torque (350 ln-ft!) to pull it through very large gears. 5spd might be the better direction. I think for a NA car, the 6spd is completely adequate. It just doesn't like double the design torque.

For the bellhousing we went with a Quad 4 Rods bellhousing and a McLeod TO bearing. They have an internal stop to prevent seal damage.

The car is currently using the Exedy NC Miata flywheel and ACT 6-puck clutch and HD pressure plate. Disk is getting sent off to ACT for a new center section to match the Ford T5 splines. The input shaft of the transmission has to be machined down to 0.591in/15mm, which is the Ford 4-cylinder and Volvo diameter. 3 cars, one spare transmission for all of them smiling smiley
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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 06:06PM
Quote
john vanlandingham


Too bad everybody knew that like 5-10 years ago...

Meh, its only money.

I didn't know the Ecoboost was around 5 years ago...?
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 08:04PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Quote
john vanlandingham


Too bad everybody knew that like 5-10 years ago...

Meh, its only money.

I didn't know the Ecoboost was around 5 years ago...?

It wasn't and we weren't talking about the motor--Duratec, Heco-bewst or whatever. The trans has been in some guise or another and it has been discussed ever hear at least 5 years ago..Conclusion everywhere: they ass-splode even when not too stressed in much lighter, much less ft/lbs producing cars on smooth surfaces...
Should have been pretty easy to guess that a heavier car, making way more torque, ramming into all kinds of junk-n-stuff would probably kill the box even quicker...

And that should have led to some caution....

With all the drawbacks there are in T5s there's solid reasons for using and recommending them to people...along with using the recommended gearset and final drive..



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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 08:33PM
Mhmm, I didn't hear of too many people destroying them (5speeds yes, but not the 6). Most of the people that I had talked to had no issues with the trans on the road or track. The main issue that did pop up is the synchros can't keep up with redline shifting if you're slamming them. There is also one plastic piece that can wear out if it's slammed too many times, and this will cause the slider to not fully engage.

Sounds like Andrew down south doesn't have an issue with them either, but he's only running at 220 lb-ft of torque.

The T5 is a decent trans though.
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john vanlandingham
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 09:07PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Mhmm, I didn't hear of too many people destroying them (5speeds yes, but not the 6). Most of the people that I had talked to had no issues with the trans on the road or track. The main issue that did pop up is the synchros can't keep up with redline shifting if you're slamming them. There is also one plastic piece that can wear out if it's slammed too many times, and this will cause the slider to not fully engage.

Sounds like Andrew down south doesn't have an issue with them either, but he's only running at 220 lb-ft of torque.

The T5 is a decent trans though.

Ever think that perhaps you are talking to a bunch of limp-wristed girlie men and pansies?
Ya know "nerds' which are notorious little whiny bitches.

Our own Pete here is a raving loon..and actually beats on things..
He was poo-poo-ing them long ago..

And I think you're confused---and i ain't interesting in debating---about the gears being too short and having to shift too much..
Its the interplay of each gear with the final drive..
Somebody said poor innocent dave clark was talked into going to 3,9 final drive...if true that makes each gear longer...

Whatever..as i said, its only money.



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Robert Culbertson
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 10:25PM
John, the amount of misinformation you posses about other people in this world is astounding.
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 10:39PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
The car is currently using the Exedy NC Miata flywheel and ACT 6-puck clutch and HD pressure plate. Disk is getting sent off to ACT for a new center section to match the Ford T5 splines. The input shaft of the transmission has to be machined down to 0.591in/15mm, which is the Ford 4-cylinder and Volvo diameter. 3 cars, one spare transmission for all of them smiling smiley

That answers the question I was about to ask: What is the pilot. I have a Mustang V8 T5 (23 tooth input which apparently only exists in Ford V8 species) and I had the pilot cut down to Mazda/Chevy size, but he said it was a complete motherfucker to cut because he had to cut under the hardening and he should have used a toolpost grinder but didn't, had to resharpen the bit eleventy billion times because the shaft was hardened, and cutting the input down that much went underneath all the hardening and we're not sure that unhardened steel will live against a NEEDLE BEARING pilot.

So I am going to try flame-hardening it myself since I'm too cheap to send it out to be Nitrided. The factory hardened it before so we'll see if I can do it with the torches, yeah? Quick heat until red and dip in oil, quick heat until red and dip in oil, and then a little more heat (but not red) and cool slowly, we'll see if a file slides off and if it does, ship it.

If the Ecoboost needs the same input, therefore, that is pretty sweet, which means swapping from 13B to Ecoboost just means an expensive bellhousing, instead of an expensive trans, which would SEEM like a zero sum game except I may break a lot of shit but I have yet to break a bellhousing.



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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 13, 2015 11:24PM
I tried a bushing, it failed, turned down input shaft, never had another problem.
Get the steel bearing retainer for input shaft. The amount of damage on my stock one from one test day and one hill climb was amazing.
Ironically Quad4 is blocks away from our old shop and never went by there ever.



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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 14, 2015 02:19AM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Sounds like Andrew down south doesn't have an issue with them either, but he's only running at 220 lb-ft of torque.

When I put the car back together I think I may throw a set of rods at it an up the bewst, then I can get some more torque and be like to cool kids!!! smiling smiley .... nah I'll probably just wait till I have to pull the engine apart.

I did have a few failures of the rear diff housing, the big alloy "moustache" bar on the MX-5. They have a notch in them so they can fail in an accident and allow the engine/box to move down and back.
We fixed that by gusseting the whole back of it with a 10mm alloy plate.

PS I do drive like a pansy, but a least one of my wrists is nice and strong!
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Re: 2.0 Ecoboost to RWD, A Brief How-To
July 14, 2015 03:24PM
Quote
Robert Culbertson
Junk yard replacement 6spd trans started making terrible noises after Idaho (installed just before the rally). Sounds mostly like bearing growl. T5 swap it is.

After looking into the exploderated 6spd from Olympus the damage was only on the 3rd and 4th gear sets. The 4th gear set were missing all of the teeth, and 3rd was missing most of the teeth.

I also noticed that the bearing support plate was cracked and the main shaft was able to flop around. I'm not sure if the bearing support broke and caused the gear teeth failure, or the force of a spare tooth getting smooshed between two gears over stressed the bearing support plate and cracked it.

Either way, 6spd miata gearbox seems like it's not up to the task. Tried and true T5 it is.

Just to verify....this was the NC Miata 6-speed(normally stock bolts to a 2.0 Mazda MZR/Duratec)
6-speed trans that went KABOOM whilst mated to the swapped in ecoboost?
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