Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

CV Joints

Posted by DexterVW 
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Mod Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,997

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: CV Joints
June 02, 2015 03:17PM
Quote
Towona
I have both Hotbits and JVABs for my Mk2. I have broken 2 driver side axles (including one brand new 0km axle) that I directly attributed to over extension of the inner cv joint while the Hotbits were installed. These breakages occurred immediately after the car hand been elevated on a hoist/jackstands, the hotbits to force the LCAs too far down and pull on the axles, then when the car was put down on the ground/floor and you started to drive off, you could feel the axle bind up and something snapped inside the inner CV.

All suspension parts/geometry are OEM (other than the coilovers and the upper mounts). I don't have that issue with the JVABs. Sitting side by side on the floor, the HB unit is about 1.5" longer overall than the JVAB unit (measuring from the upper camber bolt hole to the top mount)

1.5"!!!!!







For the measly 155mm travel they have?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
Junior Moderator
Location: VA
Join Date: 12/27/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 642

Rally Car:
Sneak the Golf


Re: CV Joints
June 02, 2015 03:22PM
Quote
john vanlandingham

1.5"!!!!!


For the measly 155mm travel they have?

yah, they are just stilts right?



____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Mod Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,997

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: CV Joints
June 02, 2015 03:31PM
Quote
Josh Wimpey
Quote
john vanlandingham

1.5"!!!!!


For the measly 155mm travel they have?

yah, they are just stilts right?

Fawk I dunno?
That's long...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
Junior Moderator
Location: VA
Join Date: 12/27/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 642

Rally Car:
Sneak the Golf


Re: CV Joints
June 02, 2015 03:43PM
I was making a joke. When Hotbits first hit the US market with Golf stuff, I saw the specs and laughed... stock or less travel with 8" springs... I think they were just designed to achieve the rally look and to get that they made them longer like stilts to get the car higher off the ground.

I know they have made major improvements since them but who knows...



____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Mod Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,997

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: CV Joints
June 02, 2015 05:26PM
Quote
Josh Wimpey
I was making a joke. When Hotbits first hit the US market with Golf stuff, I saw the specs and laughed... stock or less travel with 8" springs... I think they were just designed to achieve the rally look and to get that they made them longer like stilts to get the car higher off the ground.

I know they have made major improvements since them but who knows...

Oh Ok..like I was way serious with the embedded vid.. Didya play it?
Its perfect!
just showed my 2 girls and they agreed: perfect!



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DexterVW
David Baker
Super Moderator
Location: Rhode my Island
Join Date: 11/20/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 290

Rally Car:
95 GTI TDI


Re: CV Joints
June 03, 2015 06:55AM
8 inches (200mm of travel at the wheel with no spring)

The axle is definitely being pulled at max droop, while I didn't take axle measurements I did get another .5" of droop out of the suspension with the axle removed.

The OES inner cv happily plunges to about .5 on an inch before it starts binding up.

Now I'm just waiting till I can get to my shop (was at a buddies shop lass night) to measure the spline diameter on the stock shaft, I also have a set of mk4 axles which are about .25" longer and have a 32 spline end, which are another common spline number for the offroad 930's. Hopefully one of these combos will work.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
tdrrally
edward mucklow
Mod Moderator
Location: charleston,wv
Join Date: 05/31/2011
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 736

Rally Car:
ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle



Re: CV Joints
June 03, 2015 07:11AM
would a longer axle help or hurt at this point?



I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
danster
Danny McGee
Senior Moderator
Location: Haggisland UUK
Join Date: 01/04/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 384

Rally Car:
VWs (for my sins)


Re: CV Joints
June 03, 2015 07:49AM
What driveshafts did you use when converting to 5 stud?



Disappointingly not yet a Jackass
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DexterVW
David Baker
Super Moderator
Location: Rhode my Island
Join Date: 11/20/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 290

Rally Car:
95 GTI TDI


Re: CV Joints
June 03, 2015 08:06AM
I used vr6 axles (for 5 stud) and when i replaced all the cv's with OES ones I went through my extensive collection of axles to find tubes that were the longest (they varied by about .25"winking smiley

Dave
Please Login or Register to post a reply
danster
Danny McGee
Senior Moderator
Location: Haggisland UUK
Join Date: 01/04/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 384

Rally Car:
VWs (for my sins)


Re: CV Joints
June 03, 2015 08:43AM
The mk3 GTI / VR 5 stud driveshafts are approx 5 - 8mm shorter than the mk3 TDI 4 stud shafts. If you have chosen to use the longer shafts then that may be your problem as they could cause the CVs to bind at certain points of either steering lock or suspension travel.

The short shaft also travels through a greater anglular range when compared to the long shaft, meaning that the inner CV will bind before the long shaft side for the same wheel droop measurement. Some Greek dude called Pythagoras mentioned this to me in a pub once.

The 5 stud shafts are shorter because the bottom balljoint of the upright is off the centreline and therefore means the shafts plunges more when lock is applied.



Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2015 08:45AM by danster.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DexterVW
David Baker
Super Moderator
Location: Rhode my Island
Join Date: 11/20/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 290

Rally Car:
95 GTI TDI


Re: CV Joints
June 03, 2015 10:36AM
Interesting they are longer... hmmm... wonder if 8mm is enough to solve this issue?

I will have to try!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ReluctantGolf
Kevin Andrade
Professional Moderator
Location: Boston, MA
Join Date: 07/15/2013
Posts: 50

Rally Car:
VW Mk2 Golf for my rookie year in SCCA RallyX...MK2 GLI with 1.8T for my first event..


Re: CV Joints
June 05, 2015 08:23AM
Quote
Towona
I have both Hotbits and JVABs for my Mk2. I have broken 2 driver side axles (including one brand new 0km axle) that I directly attributed to over extension of the inner cv joint while the Hotbits were installed. These breakages occurred immediately after the car hand been elevated on a hoist/jackstands, the hotbits to force the LCAs too far down and pull on the axles, then when the car was put down on the ground/floor and you started to drive off, you could feel the axle bind up and something snapped inside the inner CV.

All suspension parts/geometry are OEM (other than the coilovers and the upper mounts). I don't have that issue with the JVABs. Sitting side by side on the floor, the HB unit is about 1.5" longer overall than the JVAB unit (measuring from the upper camber bolt hole to the top mount)

Tony - I shot you a PM a couple of days ago to ask you offfline about your experience with the Hotbits vs JVAB and pros and cons etc. When you have a moment...thanks!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
wildert
Brian Klausen
Elite Moderator
Location: Denmark
Join Date: 03/21/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 388

Rally Car:
VW Golf GTi 16V


Re: CV Joints
July 04, 2015 02:41AM
What is your setup for motor mounts?

I would stop looking at CV joints for now, and focus on triple and quadruple checking geometry.

So get the axles right (I have no idea what the correct stuff is on Mk 3), and also check on mounts.

I had major problems with CV joints breaking, and it seems that the thing that finally cured it, was getting the last motor mount solid. Now all three are nylon. Lots of vibrations, but it sits still - and with the 020 not shifting via cables, there is a solid extra benefit there as well smiling smiley



Brgrds
Brian

Please Login or Register to post a reply
danster
Danny McGee
Senior Moderator
Location: Haggisland UUK
Join Date: 01/04/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 384

Rally Car:
VWs (for my sins)


Re: CV Joints
July 04, 2015 01:40PM
The mk3 Golf is blessed with a shit engine mount design that allows the engine to wallow around more than a drunken fat lass on a water bed in a boat in rough seas during particularly amorous sexual activity.

Recommend embracing some mechanical bondage to get the mass restrained and make life easier on your shaft(s)*. thumbs up

Get adventurous with some fabrication, or at least visit the Rams and steal some hockey pucks.

* Caveat is that you are actually using the correct shafts and not busting your balls trying to impress the chicks with longer shafts designed for a different model.



Disappointingly not yet a Jackass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2015 02:20PM by danster.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DexterVW
David Baker
Super Moderator
Location: Rhode my Island
Join Date: 11/20/2008
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 290

Rally Car:
95 GTI TDI


Re: CV Joints
July 07, 2015 07:16AM
Thanks guys... my engine is nicely tied down and the fault lies on the suspension alone. At full droop I do not have enough plunge in the CV's and can actually kill a set before even taking them off the lift sad smiley
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login