VW 020 Close Ratio stuff

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wildert

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ElectroTech
Must be just perspective but it looked to me as if the 2 shafts had different ODs on the second set of splines down from the non-pinion end, where 4th sits.

That's the difference between 16V and 8V on the pinion shaft side of things.

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I am searching for a 16V R&P, would prefer 4.20 if you or anyone else might have.

4.25 is a stock part - but 8V IIRC.
You can mix and match however. 8V 4th fits on 16v input shaft and vice versa.
It is only the pinion shaft that is special.

Stock part on what applications you know of?

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The 4.25 and earlier 4.17 FDs have been fitted in various vehicles with 020 gearboxes over the years.
EG. Some diesel Golfs and lower powered petrol models.

The later 020 evolution 02K gearbox fitted to various VAG & Skoda cars also has the 4.25 and 4.47 FDs.

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Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

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wildert

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ElectroTech
Must be just perspective but it looked to me as if the 2 shafts had different ODs on the second set of splines down from the non-pinion end, where 4th sits.

That's the difference between 16V and 8V on the pinion shaft side of things.

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I am searching for a 16V R&P, would prefer 4.20 if you or anyone else might have.

4.25 is a stock part - but 8V IIRC.
You can mix and match however. 8V 4th fits on 16v input shaft and vice versa.
It is only the pinion shaft that is special.

Yes exactly, but with Hoche having VWMS gears I was wondering how he even had a choice in which R&P to use, unless he had an 8V and 16V VWMS box but 4th would be way different ratio on them and doubtfull they would be able to mesh properly, and if so I would think they wouldn't have the proper OD to fully engage between the 2 shafts. So it would either not go together because the shafts got splayed apart or the cases would go together but 4th wouldn't be meshed very tight and likely not live very long. That would actually be hard to see since the shafts don't stand perfectly straight up and down until the cases lock them in.
4.25 is srock 8V, 4.20 is VWMS 16V people confuse the 2, one is junkyard available, the other not so much.

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Power means nothing if you cannot control it!

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ElectroTech

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wildert
4.25 is a stock part - but 8V IIRC.
You can mix and match however. 8V 4th fits on 16v input shaft and vice versa.
It is only the pinion shaft that is special.

Yes exactly, but with Hoche having VWMS gears I was wondering how he even had a choice in which R&P to use, unless he had an 8V and 16V VWMS

Well, that could first of all possibly depend on the exact definition of "having VWMS gears" - mine are sorta VWMS-gears as well - or at least a copy - but only 3rd, 4th and 5th .
I dunno - just stating that it could easily depend.

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Brgrds
Brian

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wildert

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ElectroTech

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wildert
4.25 is a stock part - but 8V IIRC.
You can mix and match however. 8V 4th fits on 16v input shaft and vice versa.
It is only the pinion shaft that is special.

Yes exactly, but with Hoche having VWMS gears I was wondering how he even had a choice in which R&P to use, unless he had an 8V and 16V VWMS

Well, that could first of all possibly depend on the exact definition of "having VWMS gears" - mine are sorta VWMS-gears as well - or at least a copy - but only 3rd, 4th and 5th .
I dunno - just stating that it could easily depend.

Yeah for sure, he said VWMS boxes, if indeed they are there really was only 2 gear sets an 8V and a 16V. Seems likely the Scirocco could have had a 16V.
Just saying it's possible the gears would mesh (somewhat) between the 2 shafts but if it was 16V mixed with 8V (of different ratio) then the base circles of the gear pairs would not be the same, so the teeth may have intertwined but once the case was together and the shafts squared up it is likely that there's either way to much clearance between them and their life will be cut short, otherwise it could have been too tight but one would think the cases would be hard to get lined up on the shafts if not impossible. It's just an observation, if it's matched ratios then the 2 can mix if not then it won't be happy for long.

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Power means nothing if you cannot control it!

So, yeah, apparently I'm a dork and the 4.64 is for a later (16v) box. We're going to use the 4.53 instead. My engine's power band is broad enough that it probably won't make that much of a difference but we'll see.

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Self-righteous douche canoe

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hoche
So, yeah, apparently I'm a dork and the 4.64 is for a later (16v) box. We're going to use the 4.53 instead. My engine's power band is broad enough that it probably won't make that much of a difference but we'll see.

FD vs. power band is not really all that relevant.

Redline and required top speed vs. FD is very relevant though.

Irregardless, 4.53 vs. 4.64 isn't going to make much of a difference in top speed.
Depending on the actual gear ratios and the redline, it is likely less than 5 mph.

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Brgrds
Brian

All good, glad you didn't have it put together already!

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Power means nothing if you cannot control it!

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wildert
Irregardless, 4.53 vs. 4.64 isn't going to make much of a difference in top speed.
Depending on the actual gear ratios and the redline, it is likely less than 5 mph.

Yes, so long as your top speed is under 205.9mph, the top speed differential will be less than 5 mph between the two final drives.

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Josh Wimpey

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wildert
Irregardless, 4.53 vs. 4.64 isn't going to make much of a difference in top speed.
Depending on the actual gear ratios and the redline, it is likely less than 5 mph.

Yes, so long as your top speed is under 205.9mph, the top speed differential will be less than 5 mph between the two final drives.

LOL, that's one fast rally! It's only about 2mph @ 8500 with a 24.25 (tall for a golf) tire. Ran the numbers for my own build. Gonna be a pretty sweet setup on a VWMS 8V gearset, pretty slow on top end for the 16V setup, I don't actually want to build an 8500RPM motor, would rather spend the money elsewhere.

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Power means nothing if you cannot control it!

It's 2.5%. You can apply it however you like. In my case, it ups the top speed of the car from about 102mph to about 105mph. However, that's more or less irrelevant to me, as I can count on my left hand the number of times I've wound it out.

What I mean by my "broad power band" comment is that cornering is limited by car speed, and assuming I'm cornering at the same speed as I would with the 4.64, with the 4.53 the engine will be running 2.5% slower. That means that to achieve the same end-of-straight speed, I'll need to have the engine generating the same average torque across a slightly lower RPM range. I don't think it'll be an issue though.

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Self-righteous douche canoe