john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Stock part on what applications you know of? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
danster Haggis Muncher Professional Moderator Location: Haggisland UK Join Date: 01/04/2013 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 409 Rally Car: VWs (for my sins) |
The 4.25 and earlier 4.17 FDs have been fitted in various vehicles with 020 gearboxes over the years.
EG. Some diesel Golfs and lower powered petrol models. The later 020 evolution 02K gearbox fitted to various VAG & Skoda cars also has the 4.25 and 4.47 FDs. Disappointingly not yet a Jackass |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Super Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
Yes exactly, but with Hoche having VWMS gears I was wondering how he even had a choice in which R&P to use, unless he had an 8V and 16V VWMS box but 4th would be way different ratio on them and doubtfull they would be able to mesh properly, and if so I would think they wouldn't have the proper OD to fully engage between the 2 shafts. So it would either not go together because the shafts got splayed apart or the cases would go together but 4th wouldn't be meshed very tight and likely not live very long. That would actually be hard to see since the shafts don't stand perfectly straight up and down until the cases lock them in. 4.25 is srock 8V, 4.20 is VWMS 16V people confuse the 2, one is junkyard available, the other not so much. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
wildert Brian Klausen Super Moderator Location: Denmark Join Date: 03/21/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 388 Rally Car: VW Golf GTi 16V |
Well, that could first of all possibly depend on the exact definition of "having VWMS gears" - mine are sorta VWMS-gears as well - or at least a copy - but only 3rd, 4th and 5th . I dunno - just stating that it could easily depend. Brgrds Brian |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Super Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
Yeah for sure, he said VWMS boxes, if indeed they are there really was only 2 gear sets an 8V and a 16V. Seems likely the Scirocco could have had a 16V. Just saying it's possible the gears would mesh (somewhat) between the 2 shafts but if it was 16V mixed with 8V (of different ratio) then the base circles of the gear pairs would not be the same, so the teeth may have intertwined but once the case was together and the shafts squared up it is likely that there's either way to much clearance between them and their life will be cut short, otherwise it could have been too tight but one would think the cases would be hard to get lined up on the shafts if not impossible. It's just an observation, if it's matched ratios then the 2 can mix if not then it won't be happy for long. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
hoche Michel Hoche-Mong Mod Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
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wildert Brian Klausen Super Moderator Location: Denmark Join Date: 03/21/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 388 Rally Car: VW Golf GTi 16V |
FD vs. power band is not really all that relevant. Redline and required top speed vs. FD is very relevant though. Irregardless, 4.53 vs. 4.64 isn't going to make much of a difference in top speed. Depending on the actual gear ratios and the redline, it is likely less than 5 mph. Brgrds Brian |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Super Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
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Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Mod Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Yes, so long as your top speed is under 205.9mph, the top speed differential will be less than 5 mph between the two final drives. ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
ElectroTech Steve Wheeler Super Moderator Location: Fork Lake, Alberta Join Date: 06/09/2015 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 336 Rally Car: 1992 Golf |
LOL, that's one fast rally! It's only about 2mph @ 8500 with a 24.25 (tall for a golf) tire. Ran the numbers for my own build. Gonna be a pretty sweet setup on a VWMS 8V gearset, pretty slow on top end for the 16V setup, I don't actually want to build an 8500RPM motor, would rather spend the money elsewhere. Power means nothing if you cannot control it! |
hoche Michel Hoche-Mong Mod Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
It's 2.5%. You can apply it however you like. In my case, it ups the top speed of the car from about 102mph to about 105mph. However, that's more or less irrelevant to me, as I can count on my left hand the number of times I've wound it out.
What I mean by my "broad power band" comment is that cornering is limited by car speed, and assuming I'm cornering at the same speed as I would with the 4.64, with the 4.53 the engine will be running 2.5% slower. That means that to achieve the same end-of-straight speed, I'll need to have the engine generating the same average torque across a slightly lower RPM range. I don't think it'll be an issue though. Self-righteous douche canoe |