Construction Zone
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

Found a needle in the VW Haystack

Posted by ElectroTech 
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Ultra Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 09, 2015 11:09AM
Here's my rally car project. It's a completely untouched 1992 Golf TDi. The engine is blown (spun bearing) but otherwise this car is mint. Apparently it was a Pepsi promotional car that ran the rodeo/concert/festival circuit in the summers and was stored in the winter.
Looking forward to building and hopefully not taking forever to get this done.




Power means nothing if you cannot control it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2015 11:16AM by ElectroTech.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 09, 2015 12:19PM
Steve, please don't be a silly boy and make a big deal out of our "real name'.
You know what we mean..

You going to build a nice car or are you going to get all creative and build some thing because its "unique! (bling!)" ?
In other words gas?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Ultra Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 09, 2015 12:45PM
Ha,
The only thing diesel that will be involved with this car is the tow vehicle.
The only quandary I really have is with recent changes in the class rules in the CARS and local events who have followed suit. As per the new rules Open 2WD can have up to a 4L naturally aspirated engine with no minimum weight or a 32mm restrctor and forced induction, cars 2L and under would have no weight restriction and those from 2-2.5L have a 2500# limit, or you can go to 2900# and be unrestricted with a 2.5L displacement limit. The way it appears right now is that nobody has scratch built a car to take advantage of the new rules.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 09, 2015 12:52PM
Quote
ElectroTech
Ha,
The only thing diesel that will be involved with this car is the tow vehicle.
The only quandary I really have is with recent changes in the class rules in the CARS and local events who have followed suit. As per the new rules Open 2WD can have up to a 4L naturally aspirated engine with no minimum weight or a 32mm restrctor and forced induction, cars 2L and under would have no weight restriction and those from 2-2.5L have a 2500# limit, or you can go to 2900# and be unrestricted with a 2.5L displacement limit. The way it appears right now is that nobody has scratch built a car to take advantage of the new rules.

Screw the rules and the rules makers. NOBODY on the actual committee was an engine builder--or gearbox or suspesnion or actually DID/does anything 'technical" on cars,.

Realistically we've seen Brendon Reeves come in a car virtually identical to a MkII Golf and kick everybody in all of North America except Blocstageleo and that with a mere 1,6 liter motor buit right----and run thru a correct box and using his brakes well.

Seems no reason in the world to worry about anything more than about 2 liters--if done well.
A 16v 2,0 would be a real nice clubbie engine..

The BOX is the critical element tho....

What kind of racing background you have Dubya (Must be you wanna be known as Dubya since anonymity is important)



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Ultra Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 09, 2015 01:46PM
In terms of "racing" experience I have none. Ridden MX bikes, ATVs, snowmobiles all my life. I drive gravel every day and the roads right around my place allow for spirited driving without endangering the public (read unlock gate, close gate behind me). I plan on attending a rally driving school and expect that I will be able to keep the "New Racer" overzealousness in check and hopefully get past the ever humbling first couple of events where many younger guys expect to beat the AWD cars on their first outing.
I plan on building a car that I will not outgrow quickly.

On to the fun part;
I don't plan on having to blow the budget which is why I went back to what I know with another Mk2 VW.
I expect the cage and suspension to make up most of the $$s in.
The car needs absolutely nothing done to the body, will likely dump the low hanging big bumpers for some euro small bumpers because I'd likely loose the big ones pretty fast.
With clean sheet metal the suspension reinforcements and cage build should go pretty easy.

The car has for whatever reason an ACH trans, circa 1986, I am also buying a 2Y that has a next to new Quaife LSD and SPEC clutch. Likely to run a 4.64R&P but the ACH R&P might work decent with the 2Y gearing, fifth would be a major drop though. Drive flange swap to 100mm is cheap to do on the ACH

For the powerplant I will likely build an ABF clone using a ported 16V head with an ABA bottom w/high comp Pistons . Carbs or ITBs and standalone for fuel, some nice lumpy cams and that is about all for the motor.

As it sits right now the initial divestment is:
Rolling chassis w/ACH and TDi bits to sell- $300
1992 Passat 2.0 16V- $100
2Y with Quaife and SPEC clutch $300
1996 ABA complete with unknown 020- $350
So $1050 in and I'm thinking I should be able to get a fair bit of that back after gutting the car, ditching the bumpers, sell the 16V bottom end and one of the transmissions.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 09, 2015 05:47PM
seriously you're online now so call that phone number in the signature and I will save you quite literally THOUSANDS of dollars and you'll have MORE fun..
Spec? Yech!
Quaiffe--bring me a bucket, I'm going to spew.

Get the box and sell the Quaiffe to some SoCal street poseur or a otter-crosser...
Same with the Spec which the pressure plate is just a painted stock pressure plate...

Call. I have ciggies so I'll be OK. And i'll call you back so its on my nickle.

And I'll save even more dough, honest.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
MattP
Matt Pullen
Ultra Moderator
Location: Calgary
Join Date: 10/22/2013
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 257

Rally Car:
2002 Ford StRanger


Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 09, 2015 08:19PM
As you're in Alberta we have a couple of knowledgable VW competitors with some very rapid rabbits.
Eric Grochowski here in Cowtown, he's also the western director on the CARS Board so a good man to know anyways. And Matt Bobyn up in Edmonton. He knows how to peddle that Golf pretty well, untill the suspension died, if you have a look at the recent Radium Rally.



Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Ultra Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 11, 2015 01:33AM
Thanks for the (short) phonecall John! Post the pics of your suspension setup you were telling me about!

I will keep that in mind Matt! Good to know there's some other VW fans out in the civilized part of the province.

The car comes tomorrow, will get some more pics.

Looking at a runner B3 Passat 16V auto to use as my donor to pull the beefier running gear and brakes out of and possibly swap in the 16V as is for now while I build. Want to get it on the road and get wheel time while I build.

Likely to run Corrado style 11" brakes but maybe look for a set of Wilwood calipers to save on unsprung weight.

The Passat 16V w/auto trans is set up better electronics wise for Standalone than a manual car and has the 42mm intake vs 40mm on the A2 16V. I could cut the build budget back on the Motor side by just doing a high comp rebuild, set of cams and my own valve job/mild porting and pull decent real world HP out of it without going to crazy. Guys spend an awful lot to get much more out of them. The first 175 or so is reasonable that last bit to get (builder) Dyno numbers above 200 is sure to double the cost. I haven't seen much out this way in the way of an honest Dyno they all seem a little let's say generous....lol. I think I'd rebuild an old set of webers and run MSD ignition if I started going down that long road.

Looks like the Diff & 4.86 R&P are going to be nealy $2k which surprises the heck out of me.
Will combine the gear sets from the 2Y and ACH I have.

Suspension is right about where I expected the cost to be.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
riverwestauto
jake henes
Elite Moderator
Location: milwaukee
Join Date: 03/14/2011
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 30

Rally Car:
new beetle



Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 12, 2015 08:33PM
4.86 huh? Is that price the fuel to fly it acrossatlantic?
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Matt Bobyn
Matt Bobyn
Ultra Moderator
Location: Edmonton, AB
Join Date: 10/07/2013
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 24

Rally Car:
VW GTi


Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 12, 2015 08:52PM
Very cool to see another VW being built up here! I've got a couple thoughts, take 'em for what they are.

1. Careful with changing around suspension stuff, there are subtle differences in axle lengths, etc. Just make sure it all matches.

2. I wouldn't bother with the corrado brakes. Mk4 aluminium rears and mk3 single piston Lucas fronts with good pads and rotors will give you all the power and heat capacity you'll need for a long time. Make sure you have good fluid in them and replace the seals proactively. Sticking to 14" wheels and tires will save a ton of weight.

3. If you can I'd build up an 02a/02j box instead of the 020. You'll likely never break the newer stuff, its much larger.

4. I wouldn't get too caught up building an engine, just get something in there for seat time while you build a second. And you should totally do Webers, I want to hear that thing roar!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Ultra Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 12, 2015 09:23PM
Yeah Jake, the 4.64 isn't listed anywhere so 4.86 it is, 2k is on the light side, for a gripper and the R&P.

Thanks Matt,
New to rally but not VW, got the what bit fits who down.
I would likely steer clear of the 2-piston calipers, if I can't find a set of Wilwoods I'd likely stick with 256 gear.
If I go up from the 020 I'd likely just grab a B3 Passat, keep the pedal box as is and skip the hydro clutch.
It won't take me any longer to build a wild 16V then it will to rebuild back to stock.
Time is my precious commodity, I'm more akin to doing things once. After all this is just about the most common FWD car to build and there are dozens of examples to glean from.

Actually exploring another power plant avenue that would be different, perhaps a first......



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
wvonkessler
Wilson von Kessler
Infallible Moderator
Location: Lookout Mountain, GA
Join Date: 02/28/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,113

Rally Car:
Colts are in Finland; now '87 325i, '89 325i



Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 13, 2015 10:26AM
2.5 5 cylinder?



"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?"
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Infallible Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 13, 2015 12:27PM
Quote
wvonkessler
2.5 5 cylinder?

No point.
A nice Lego-ed together 2.0 done right and driven like one is supposed to would be plenty..

Kinda stupid to expend effort for BIG motors when guys don't even use 2.0s half way---and the evidence of that is how they get stomped by guys who drive cars with smaller engines.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Ultra Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 13, 2015 01:03PM
Lego motor for sure, 4cyl, 2l give or take......
Like the 2.5 motor, but not in this application, did put some thought into it.
No point in having 300hp with only 2 driven wheels on gravel.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
Ultra Moderator
Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
Join Date: 06/09/2015
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 312

Rally Car:
1992 Golf


Re: Found a needle in the VW Haystack
June 14, 2015 09:13PM
Soooo, I have probably the most basic, likely custom ordered Golf built in 1992.
I bought it site unseen due to body condition.
Was able to spend a few minutes looking it over today.
The only rust on the car is surface rust where the battery sat, very happy so far with the condition.
The car has NO:
AC
Power Steering
Sunroof
Power Door Locks or Windows

Basically as plain Jane as you could hope for to build off. It doesn't even have the usual gobs of sound deadening gook all over.

Looking for opinions on the power steering, maybe find a electro hydraulic pump instead of putting the piss poor North American hemroid of a bracket/pully system they hodge podged under the car.
Really like the simplicity of the 3 pully setup.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login