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Bersh's 240

Posted by CBersh 
autronic
Chris Dale
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Location: Newcastle Australia
Join Date: 11/05/2015
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Re: Bersh's 240
November 22, 2015 09:25PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
autronic
The exchange rate to Australian dollars is quite good currently. Would you consider MCA suspension?

What advantage would that be over the readily available inverted 50 Bilsteins from North AmericaƤs biggest rally suspension supplier who has already done 2 other 240 Nissans one of which has been a consistent Group 5 winner?
What would the cost be?
How much postage cost?
(I currntly have in my car a full set of Golf suspension adressed to a gy here named Staeve Wheeler in Alberta Canada and it will be USD 212 for post just up there...and from the opposite end of the world I can imagine over USD450.)

And where the postage is FAR FAR less and where servie in future is easier and cheaper?

I just refreshed some Proflex struts and the insert rebuild was USD1200 for 4 inserts..or $300/insert.

It is well under $135 for a Bilstein 50 and which it should be noted, has 200mm travel on the fronts vs the Proflex 170mm travel...220 rear vs 190mm.

Another friend waited 9 months for a Proflex rebuild.

There is also a bad taste in many people's mouth about the absolute stonewalling of service from another well known Aussie supplier who claimed "There has never been one DMS unit which has failed in competition"---I have seen the email to their US distributor and the broken shock--fractures in a corner machined with virtually no radius----laying on the desk..

I have no idea what the cost would be. However my post was for CBersh. I could investigate the costs if he wishes. Do not tar all Australians with the DMS brush. We get excellent service from MCA and as of yet I have not seen a failure as one would see with the DMS. I also note that your own service has been severly critizised recently John.
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CBersh
Chris Bersheim
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Location: Lancaster, PA
Join Date: 09/25/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 8

Rally Car:
Nissan 240sx


Re: Bersh's 240
November 22, 2015 10:10PM
John, I will for sure give you a jingle again.

As for the rear arms, I plan on making some myself. Two of then are very simple, a straight piece of tube and some half decent rod ends and away we go. The rear upper control arm has to be bent. I don't have a tube bender but the Amish shop across the way will do it for 16 pennies.

As for the engine, this one is just to get my butt in the seat. A high compression dual cam is in the future, but balls are more important than power right now.

As for the MCA suspension, I know they make very good products. But when I break something I would prefer to pick up the phone and say "Hey man, I broke this thing. How do I fix it?" If I lived in Australia I might run a set but I don't...


I spent the last couple days after work stripping the chassis harness. Took out all the automatic seatbelt crap amongst a bunch of other stuff. Made the harness much easier to fit with the cage.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Bersh's 240
November 22, 2015 10:16PM
Quote
autronic
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
autronic
The exchange rate to Australian dollars is quite good currently. Would you consider MCA suspension?

What advantage would that be over the readily available inverted 50 Bilsteins from North AmericaƤs biggest rally suspension supplier who has already done 2 other 240 Nissans one of which has been a consistent Group 5 winner?
What would the cost be?
How much postage cost?
(I currntly have in my car a full set of Golf suspension adressed to a gy here named Staeve Wheeler in Alberta Canada and it will be USD 212 for post just up there...and from the opposite end of the world I can imagine over USD450.)

And where the postage is FAR FAR less and where servie in future is easier and cheaper?

I just refreshed some Proflex struts and the insert rebuild was USD1200 for 4 inserts..or $300/insert.

It is well under $135 for a Bilstein 50 and which it should be noted, has 200mm travel on the fronts vs the Proflex 170mm travel...220 rear vs 190mm.

Another friend waited 9 months for a Proflex rebuild.

There is also a bad taste in many people's mouth about the absolute stonewalling of service from another well known Aussie supplier who claimed "There has never been one DMS unit which has failed in competition"---I have seen the email to their US distributor and the broken shock--fractures in a corner machined with virtually no radius----laying on the desk..

I have no idea what the cost would be. However my post was for CBersh. I could investigate the costs if he wishes. Do not tar all Australians with the DMS brush. We get excellent service from MCA and as of yet I have not seen a failure as one would see with the DMS. I also note that your own service has been severly critizised recently John.

I understand that the post was for chris.
I also understand that this is a discussion forum...and there is a huge lurker to poster ratio because many many many lurkers call up and we have long phone calls..
So those questions, particularly the most obvious "What advantage?" are the normal questions that everybody at Chris stage of prep should and will ask, so they are legitimate questions.

I'm not tarring a whole country with the shit spewed by one obvious megalomaniac. The guy is nuts.
As for recent criticism its really Grant Hughes. Grant wants to be something in the sport and while he's learned to bend tubes and weld passibly, he's not really a rally guy.. Its the whole rally "scene" and the chatter and gossip that motivates him.. I've know many guys here in the States in both rally and the sport I devoted my life to up to about 30...They have bikes and gear, or cars but they never race, or just do little play day things.. And mostly they complain about others..
he says "We've all heard this same story" so "I don't bother reading".
He forgets that there are constantly noobs and they haven't heard the same stories...
And I found his last whine-fest interesting when he said " a lot of my customers are going to HotBitch or whatever "because of the difficulty of dealing with you".
Now if they have not called and talked and engeged in any way it is logically not "dealing with " me, is it?
It is from hearing stories--and doubtless one sided and critical stories, guy-bitch sessions..

Nothing I can do about guys getting together and bonding thru bitching.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/22/2015 10:33PM by john vanlandingham.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Bersh's 240
November 22, 2015 10:50PM
Found this Chris (Dale)

http://s13rally.com/A55DAE/S13Blog.nsf/dx/27042012081543AMSRAU4V.htm
ancient prices and i reckon they haven't gone down:
Prices as of June 2012 and subject to change etc.

Quote

With Canister: Front strut $1900.00 each
Front Top Mount $300.00 each
Front Spring $100.00 each
Rear coil over $1200.00 each
Rear Spring $100.00 each

No Canister: Front strut $1200.00 each
Front Top Mount $300.00 each
Front Spring $100.00 each
Rear coil over $750.00 each

US$100=OZ$140
or
OZ$100= $71.75 Merikun

Eeer umm.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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autronic
Chris Dale
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Location: Newcastle Australia
Join Date: 11/05/2015
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Posts: 11


Re: Bersh's 240
November 22, 2015 11:50PM
There either is truth in what NoCoast says or there isnt. Are you currently undertaking legal proceedings against him ?. Thos prices look about right. As I would not accept a rally damper without a cannister and external adjuct, please quote me for a set of your struts with cannister and external adjust for, say a Subaru GC AWD.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Bersh's 240
November 23, 2015 12:34AM
Quote
autronic
There either is truth in what NoCoast says or there isnt. Are you currently undertaking legal proceedings against him ?. Thos prices look about right. As I would not accept a rally damper without a cannister and external adjuct, please quote me for a set of your struts with cannister and external adjust for, say a Subaru GC AWD.

Well them if you won't accept a damper without a canister or external adjust, guess I can't help you.

All US events are gravel, all are to quote a guy named Andrew Pinker, "from fast to really fawkin fast"

And as you probably know the level of competition here is typically "modest"
As such for most people there is no need for clickers or adjustable valving in this market..

I know that most guys have a compulsion to diddle with things..They can buy other things such as the Hotbitch or DMS or Proflex...
Interestingly in my previous sport when moto-cross bike began getting external adjusters on production bikes everybody immediately started twiddling the knobs and got lost...
I maintain that many adjusters are unacceptable variable side to side, and some have such a large range that its easy to get waaaaaay way off base, while others are so ineffective they are undetectable changes.

If you were here and could accept no canisters (remember those Pro-flex I just did had only 170mm travel, around only 1015mm more travel than a OEM Subie front--and i did a freshen up on some RSSP/Bartek abd they were likewise very short travel compareed with the 190mm travel on the old 40mm inserts and the 200mm on the 50s) and fixed damping--good enough for overall 1st-4th here--that would be $2400 complete..



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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autronic
Chris Dale
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Location: Newcastle Australia
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Re: Bersh's 240
November 23, 2015 12:49AM
I know very little about the North American rally scene. At the current exchange rate ,allowing USD 500 for freight, and given the 10% GST and 10% import duty I would land your struts for approx AUD $5000.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Bersh's 240
November 23, 2015 01:16AM
Quote
autronic
I know very little about the North American rally scene. At the current exchange rate ,allowing USD 500 for freight, and given the 10% GST and 10% import duty I would land your struts for approx AUD $5000.

Ross Kingham in South Austarlia got front struts and knuckles and hubs for his 240--the other kind for USD378.. In weight approx the same as struts and shocks..

GST and duty, nobody can do much for that beyond the normal.

Andrew Pinker who I mentioned is Australian, living in London doing real estate sales..
http://www.ewrc-results.com/profile.php?p=2563



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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MRWmotorsports
Martin Walter
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Location: North Gower, Ontario, Canada.
Join Date: 03/01/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 450

Rally Car:
Nissan 240SX


Re: Bersh's 240
November 25, 2015 03:07PM
Hi Chris,

a couple of comments. These 240's are pretty prone to bending where the front clip attaches to the firewall, they get soft, rot, and bend. You really should consider plating the top of the front struts and tieing them into the cage. You should also consider plating the inside, or outside (easier) of the frame rails from in front of strut tower, right back to underneath the drivers seat... all in one piece. Adds some weight yes, but also a lot of strength.

Depending on how you attach your skid plate, and if you intend to jump.. of course you do! - you might want a bar going from the front of the strut tower to the frame rail directly above where the skid plate attaches. My skid plat attaches to the original tow hooks, when I land hard it bottoms out, and pushes the whole front end in front of the strut towers "up"... I used jack stands hard-wood, and the front bucket of a back-hoe to bend it back down, and welded in said bars.

You cage is interesting design.. one tech inspector said it's allowed, good! I'd hate to see you have to do version 3! Seat mounts look good, nicer than mine, I had to do the same floor mods to make room for a rally seat...

Your harness bar is odd, look to me like it's going the wrong way, usually they are behind the main hoop. If that were my car there wouldn't be room for the seats, you and co-driver must both be short. You main hoop must be further back than mine... or you haven't tired the seats yet!

I've been using John's 40mm struts for 8 years. I've bent a shit load of inserts, but done around 45 rally's. I'd get the 50mm ones and I doubt bending would be a problem. The rears are 50's and are reasonably cheap. I've bent a few, but only when I bend some links... which I also make myself.

Use whichever engine is cheap to get started. When you are going as fast as you can with that, then get the SR20DET... awesome motor, easy swap, cheap... I've run the same motor for 8 years.

I don't come on here much these days, in fact I think this is the first message I've posted in well over a year... if you want to ask me any specific questions, email me martin At qnx DOT com.

-Martin.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,994

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Bersh's 240
November 25, 2015 09:58PM
Quote
MRWmotorsports
Hi Chris,

a couple of comments. These 240's are pretty prone to bending where the front clip attaches to the firewall, they get soft, rot, and bend. You really should consider plating the top of the front struts and tieing them into the cage. You should also consider plating the inside, or outside (easier) of the frame rails from in front of strut tower, right back to underneath the drivers seat... all in one piece. Adds some weight yes, but also a lot of strength.

Depending on how you attach your skid plate, and if you intend to jump.. of course you do! - you might want a bar going from the front of the strut tower to the frame rail directly above where the skid plate attaches. My skid plat attaches to the original tow hooks, when I land hard it bottoms out, and pushes the whole front end in front of the strut towers "up"... I used jack stands hard-wood, and the front bucket of a back-hoe to bend it back down, and welded in said bars.

You cage is interesting design.. one tech inspector said it's allowed, good! I'd hate to see you have to do version 3! Seat mounts look good, nicer than mine, I had to do the same floor mods to make room for a rally seat...

Your harness bar is odd, look to me like it's going the wrong way, usually they are behind the main hoop. If that were my car there wouldn't be room for the seats, you and co-driver must both be short. You main hoop must be further back than mine... or you haven't tired the seats yet!

I've been using John's 40mm struts for 8 years. I've bent a shit load of inserts, but done around 45 rally's. I'd get the 50mm ones and I doubt bending would be a problem. The rears are 50's and are reasonably cheap. I've bent a few, but only when I bend some links... which I also make myself.

Use whichever engine is cheap to get started. When you are going as fast as you can with that, then get the SR20DET... awesome motor, easy swap, cheap... I've run the same motor for 8 years.

I don't come on here much these days, in fact I think this is the first message I've posted in well over a year... if you want to ask me any specific questions, email me martin At qnx DOT com.

-Martin.

Maybe its time for some 50s for you, too?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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CBersh
Chris Bersheim
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Location: Lancaster, PA
Join Date: 09/25/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 8

Rally Car:
Nissan 240sx


Re: Bersh's 240
November 29, 2015 12:11PM
Mr Martin,
Thank you for your insight.

I do plan on plating the front strut towers, I was debating trying to tie them into the cage... my cage builder was supposed to do it but then he thought it wouldn't do me any good..... so he sorta refused to do it. The engine bay is my next project.

I already added a steel plate to the outside of the frame rails along the weaker bit where it curves up at the front, ill try and get a picture of them this week.

Theres plenty of room with my harness bar. Measurements where taken with me sitting in my seat mounted in the car. I'm not that far forward really, but I do have a long torso and tiny legs..

I will most certainly contact you with some questions in the future!
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Bersh's 240
November 29, 2015 12:27PM
Quote
CBersh
Mr Martin,
Thank you for your insight.

I do plan on plating the front strut towers, I was debating trying to tie them into the cage... my cage builder was supposed to do it but then he thought it wouldn't do me any good..... so he sorta refused to do it. The engine bay is my next project.

I already added a steel plate to the outside of the frame rails along the weaker bit where it curves up at the front, ill try and get a picture of them this week.

Theres plenty of room with my harness bar. Measurements where taken with me sitting in my seat mounted in the car. I'm not that far forward really, but I do have a long torso and tiny legs..

I will most certainly contact you with some questions in the future!

Well here's a real simple idea from the great book "Ford Escort rally Preparation" hosted somewhere here: see the little wedge shaped pieces down at the inner chassi rail/firewall junction?


Dirt simple with a little CAD work--that's Cardboard Aided design

Here's some in a Capri I was doing:



So simple, out of the way. Notice too the nice engine mounts off the chassi rail rather than the crossmember..
That is extra nice. You get a stable engine and it eases future front end work. Crossmemeber and rack can be whipped out when you smash into something and the engine doesn't need to be touched...

Maybe I can find a piccie or 3 (hundred ) of the old Toyota Group B celica RWD cars where they did something more or less the same..
Hang on.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Bersh's 240
November 29, 2015 03:40PM
Yep found a few: during rebuild


With paint:


With a nice engine dropped in place:


This idea is relatively easy to adapt. We've done it on a number of Xratties--copying the works items which I bought a set to see how the did them---16g material!----and on a good ol 510, and on some Volvo 240s and I think some AE86s..

Skye Poirier, owner of this site on his Xratty:


My own YB Cossie 4x4 powered Xratty:


A little work, not a lot but it is soooooooooooo nice that the engine sits still and doesn't wag around 45 degrees back and forth...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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CBersh
Chris Bersheim
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Location: Lancaster, PA
Join Date: 09/25/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 8

Rally Car:
Nissan 240sx


Re: Bersh's 240
November 29, 2015 04:41PM
I like that. Would that circular bushing thing be the way to go? Or would something like this suffice,
Im sure it is not as strong, but the rubber bushings I think are off some old dodge, I dont remember.. but every autoparts store in the country has them stocked for like 3 dollars each. I can just easily build abox on the frame and then cut the lil brackety thing that the factory mount bolts too... hmmmm
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,927


Re: Bersh's 240
November 29, 2015 05:26PM
Oh HELL no. Half the point is that you use a mount design that by nature can't separate. Even Dodge stopped using that kind of mount in the 60s or 70s, going to "spool" mounts which are stamped clamshells of rubber with a sleeve in the middle... Even if the rubber is completely gone the engine can't move that much.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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