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Volvo 244 build

Posted by Kallinen 
Kallinen
Jordan Kallinen
Professional Moderator
Location: Webster WI, and Silver Bay MN
Join Date: 11/04/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 12

Rally Car:
1990 Volvo 240


Volvo 244 build
November 16, 2015 09:35AM
Hey guys. So I picked up a 1990 Volvo 244. I still don't really get the model numbers. It was sold to me as a 240, but when I checked the (Vin plate?) In the engine compartment it said it was a 244 dl.

Anyways, the exhaust broke loose right in front of the cat while I was "testing" the car, and after crawling under the car I decided to just rip it the rest of the way off. That pushed me into the project before I got a chance to ask you guys some questions. And now, because of some eager friends and a few beers, the interior is 75% out.

To start with my plan is to strip the car and seam weld it, then cart it down to davenport racing in the Minneapolis area. He will be caging, seat mounts, and (suspension tower?) mods. After I pick it back up I will be finishing the details.

So the questions I have are:
1. The car came with a steel moon roof, is that going to be a problem? I can just weld it closed, but is the car no good because of that?
2. Should I just plan on making a new harness since so many things are completely unnecessary?
3. Can I just put different hubs on the car? That would solve the problem with wheel bolt pattern.
4. Which t5 transmission is the one to get, seems all I can figure out is gm t5 with a 2.95 first gear. Did that come in the s10? I have a line on a cheapish one from a friend of a friend.

I will keep adding to the list. Right now I need to sleep.
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Not Trolling
Keith Morison
Senior Moderator
Location: Calgary, AB
Join Date: 09/15/2015
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 268



Re: Volvo 244 build
November 16, 2015 02:36PM
I'll give you a hint on volvo numbering...

the 144 was replaced by the 244 and were both 4 cyl sedans
the 164 was replaced by the 264 and were both 6 cyl sedans
the 145 was replaced by the 245 and were both 4 cyl wagons

so, what would you guess about the 242?

unfortunately, what you'd guess about the780 (782, although it was never called that) would probably be wrong...

(this doesn't apply to the 444,540, 122 and I stopped paying attention after the cars wen FWD)

In terms of prep... I was under the impression the preferred order was:

Strip
Frame machine
Cage, tied into suspension
Seam weld.
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egdinger
Eric Dinger
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Re: Volvo 244 build
November 16, 2015 04:42PM
Quote
Kallinen
So the questions I have are:
1. The car came with a steel moon roof, is that going to be a problem? I can just weld it closed, but is the car no good because of that?
Rally America Rulebook 2015 Section 6.4.23 "Movable metal sunroofs and/or roof panels have been fixed in the closed position..." If you want to get a NASA logbook look at their rules. Infact do that now, look at both rule books, who runs most of the events nearby, closest scruiteneers, other factors someone will tell me I forgot, and figure out which ruleset you want to build under; This can and will have an impact on how you build your car.

Quote
Kallinen
2. Should I just plan on making a new harness since so many things are completely unnecessary?
Maybe? I think yours is after the problem years for brittle harnesses. Have you rewired a car before?

Quote
Kallinen
3. Can I just put different hubs on the car? That would solve the problem with wheel bolt pattern.
What's the issue with the wheel bolt pattern?

Quote
Kallinen
4. Which t5 transmission is the one to get, seems all I can figure out is gm t5 with a 2.95 first gear. Did that come in the s10? I have a line on a cheapish one from a friend of a friend.
2.95s did not come in any s10's; V8 Camaros had them. http://www.britishv8.org/articles/borg-warner-t5-id-tags.htm, more than you wanted to know.

Edit: About the 240/244 thing, sometime in the early 80's volvo dropped the last # equals # of doors and just called them all 240's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2015 04:51PM by egdinger.
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Kallinen
Jordan Kallinen
Professional Moderator
Location: Webster WI, and Silver Bay MN
Join Date: 11/04/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 12

Rally Car:
1990 Volvo 240


Re: Volvo 244 build
November 16, 2015 09:26PM
There are only 2 nasa events within 10 hours driving distance and 8 RA within that same distance. For now, till I get some seat time, it will be RA. Not that I'm not going to also work toward nasa.

The moon roof gets welded, check.

The thought behind the wiring harness was that since I'm stripping everything out of the car I could rewire it and massively simplify it by deleting all the unused things. That said, no, I haven't rewired a car, but my ocd is chanting that I could probably do it. It is a little bit scary though.

I had read seam weld after before as well, nasa even suggests it is unnecessary unless you are really competitive. I would rather make my car like a tank though. The escort book suggests seam welding before caging, but I'm pretty sure that they mean something different. I believe that they are referring to strengthening the chassis to some sort of race spec.
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Kallinen
Jordan Kallinen
Professional Moderator
Location: Webster WI, and Silver Bay MN
Join Date: 11/04/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 12

Rally Car:
1990 Volvo 240


Re: Volvo 244 build
November 16, 2015 09:46PM
The wheel bolt pattern is 5x105 or 5 x 4.25ish. That is an almost non-existing bolt pattern. So I can keep buying stock steel rims or order custom wheels like braid.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 12:57AM
So many little things..
Tired of typing
time to call and chat..
What's your schedule like?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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CALL +1 206 431-9696
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is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Kallinen
Jordan Kallinen
Professional Moderator
Location: Webster WI, and Silver Bay MN
Join Date: 11/04/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 12

Rally Car:
1990 Volvo 240


Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 01:42AM
I work nights central time... I know your 3 hours (behind?) me, so translated I work from 5:30pm to 3:30am your time.
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Robert Culbertson
Robert Culbertson
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MK2 VW GTI



Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 01:56AM
So the questions I have are:
1. The car came with a steel moon roof, is that going to be a problem? I can just weld it closed, but is the car no good because of that?

Weld it on the inside. Don't burn up the seals or it will leak. Welding from the outside sucks. I've seen them silicone sealed, seems a bit too "Home Depot" special to me.

2. Should I just plan on making a new harness since so many things are completely unnecessary?

The Volvo 240 chassis harness is terrifying, but it works most of the time. The chassis harness forward of the front seats is terrible, so I would replace that if you were feeling zesty). Engine harness is laid out pretty decently stock.


3. Can I just put different hubs on the car? That would solve the problem with wheel bolt pattern.

Volvo 10 spokes are the shiznit! Wheels are not the biggest issue.


4. Which t5 transmission is the one to get, seems all I can figure out is gm t5 with a 2.95 first gear. Did that come in the s10? I have a line on a cheapish one from a friend of a friend.


S10 ratios are about on par with stock, aka terrible. Most of the adapters are made for the ford input shaft length. V8 trans tend to have better ratios 1st-4th for funsies. GM trans will work with the proper adapter or an input shaft swap.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2015 01:59AM by Robert Culbertson.
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Kallinen
Jordan Kallinen
Professional Moderator
Location: Webster WI, and Silver Bay MN
Join Date: 11/04/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 12

Rally Car:
1990 Volvo 240


Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 02:15AM
alrighty. I figured the hubs would just be a thing to do, maybe later, maybe just get wheels at some point.

I guess the part of the harness thing is everything behind the firewall "except" the taillights will be custom or deleted. I.e. fuel cell, switches, guages.

That said, I don't want to dive way in over my head. This project is already going to push every car skill I have.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 08:56AM
Quote
Kallinen
I work nights central time... I know your 3 hours (behind?) me, so translated I work from 5:30pm to 3:30am your time.

OK then, when are you bright and awake and able to scribble legible notes while jabbering?

Casue there's so many details and typing is not the way to answer every question..
Take sunroof.

I say get the roof line out and look at the height of the whatever it is that receves the panel when it slides rearwad.. That height is waste. On the many previous sun roof cars we removed all that crap, cleaned the edge of the hole and made a simple filler panel that overlaps and put a step in it with these


Then we sawed a series of cuts every 6-7" from edge to the step line except at the corners where we did them every 1 to 1 1/2"..
This allows the metal to conform to the compound curve since the roof has a L/T crown and a F/R curve...

Then an assistant holds it up and you do a series of tack welds every 3-4" at the easy to get to top side and around the overlapping edge inside the car. Working in a sequence like head torquing back and forth. Then skim with Miracle Mud and sealer prime, paint, and done.

Very simple...easy. Unless you're a real rally shop but not really.
Result: 2"+ more head room, more room for the roof bars..

I'm not a sheet-metal guy and I managed to figure this out and do it after trying without those edge snips..

That takes too much time to write especially when everything turns into argument here.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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Kallinen
Jordan Kallinen
Professional Moderator
Location: Webster WI, and Silver Bay MN
Join Date: 11/04/2015
Age: Party Animal
Posts: 12

Rally Car:
1990 Volvo 240


Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 09:16AM
I'll figure something out, maybe get up early tomorrow afternoon before work. That would be the best time really.

Now for some visions of Volvos rallying in my head.
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Keith Morison
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Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 03:49PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
That takes too much time to write especially when everything turns into argument here.

No it doesn't...




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fiasco
Andrew Steere
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too rich for my blood, share a LeMons car



Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 07:19PM
Quote
Kallinen

So the questions I have are:
1. The car came with a steel moon roof, is that going to be a problem? I can just weld it closed, but is the car no good because of that?

Remove moonroof and track under roof, etc. Plasma cutter is your friend here. You want that cage tucked against the roof panel as much as possible, a couple hours spent here will save headaches (metaphorical and physical) from a low cage..

Fill the hole with some sort of overlapping (underlapping) sheet metal. That may be the existing panel with some filler strips from the bottom, or cutting the side of a washing machine as appropriate. A little Bondo isn't going to be a terrible thing here.

Quote
Kallinen
2. Should I just plan on making a new harness since so many things are completely unnecessary?

Depends. If the harness works, I'd leave it alone. If there's smoke exiting, then I'd rewire for the basics. Where is that thread.... here: http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,108201 https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/wiring_ecu.html

Quote
Kallinen
3. Can I just put different hubs on the car? That would solve the problem with wheel bolt pattern.

I still see a Volvo 240 nearly every day on the road. Wheels are out there. Hoard them.

Quote
Kallinen
4. Which t5 transmission is the one to get, seems all I can figure out is gm t5 with a 2.95 first gear. Did that come in the s10? I have a line on a cheapish one from a friend of a friend.

I will keep adding to the list. Right now I need to sleep.

Yes. I'd roll over to Turbobricks for that info...



Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Ancient
Posts: 13,998

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: Volvo 244 build
November 17, 2015 09:11PM
Quote
fiasco

Yes. I'd roll over to Turbobricks for that info...

Half-complete info there..just repetition of what some other 22 year old said.
There's VARIOUS ways of getting the T5 in and some even position the shift good...
The snout length and pilot diameter is so easy to solve: turn back the splines, turn pilot to 15mm from Fords 17mm---or use GM T5 which comes 15mm..
Dimensions don't exist on Turbobricks.
Only feelings.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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