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budget mk3 build

Posted by zach613 
zach613
zach wittmer
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Location: parkers prairie
Join Date: 11/29/2015
Posts: 4

Rally Car:
mk3


budget mk3 build
November 29, 2015 10:05PM
So new to the fourm, new to Rally,Just bought the car today and This seemed to be a good place to keep track of my first build. My plans for this car as of now is to have it out iceoval racing a couple times this winter then run it next fall hopefully in nemadji. It is a 96vr6. Investment to date is 550$


It has a few isues i need to take care of before i get into the build more.
Throws a code for a coolant temp sensor, a code for the ignition i can not remeber off hand. The Previus owner also stated it would some times not start affter being ran a while till it cooled off completly.
First things with the chasies will be to rebuild the rockers and door sill area and put in the rally stand points since i will welding their anyway and any other body spots that need help.
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Towona
Tony P
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Location: Alberta, Canada
Join Date: 08/21/2010
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Rally Car:
MK2 Golf



Re: budget mk3 build
December 01, 2015 03:10PM
Good luck with your build



Runamuck Rally
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fliz
Chad Eixenberger
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1988 VW Golf #687


Re: budget mk3 build
December 01, 2015 03:55PM
Good luck.

If it's got rust...check the front strut towers before you get too far along. I ended up scrapping a shell after finding rust on the floor, rockers, and finally both strut towers. It was also a Wisconsin car.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: budget mk3 build
December 01, 2015 09:02PM
Anybody gonna say something about the weight and expense of the V6 thang?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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ElectroTech
Steve Wheeler
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Location: Fork Lake, Alberta
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1992 Golf


Re: budget mk3 build
December 01, 2015 09:45PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Anybody gonna say something about the weight and expense of the V6 thang?
You could fund a pretty stout 2l 16V by selling that VR6 as a swap for some guy wanting to do a Mk2 swap. Pluses are you have the better running gear/brakes already so you save that money already.



Power means nothing if you cannot control it!
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zach613
zach wittmer
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Location: parkers prairie
Join Date: 11/29/2015
Posts: 4

Rally Car:
mk3


Re: budget mk3 build
December 01, 2015 10:13PM
What kind of hp gain/loss vs weight saving is their going to be with the 16 valve ruffly? I will check the front strut towers out this weekend when i have time to get it in the shop. I think my shift linkage is messed up for third gear also. I have to shift the lever twards fifth then push it left twards third then up into third.
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Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
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Sneak the Golf


Re: budget mk3 build
December 03, 2015 03:57PM
Quote
zach613
What kind of hp gain/loss vs weight saving is their going to be with the 16 valve ruffly? .

A bone stock ABF 16v motor makes 7hp less than the 12v VR6 motor makes stock. Not sure of the weight difference but it is considerable.



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hoche
Michel Hoche-Mong
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Re: budget mk3 build
December 04, 2015 12:54AM
It's about 75lbs, which doesn't sound too bad except that it's all in the wrong spot.

And you'd probably have to run an O2A, which is some more weight.



Self-righteous douche canoe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2015 12:55AM by hoche.
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danster
Danny McGee
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Re: budget mk3 build
December 04, 2015 06:08AM
Quote
hoche
And you'd probably have to run an O2A, which is some more weight.

Yes, the VR boxes have a different bellhousing bolt pattern compared to the 4 cylinder versions.
So an 02A or 02J box specific to the VR engine is needed. Most internals are swappable between the 4 cylinder boxes so a std 4.25 R&P could be sourced.

Standard 02A VR box final drives tend to be tall @ 3.3:1. Some of the later 02J VR boxes have lower final drive ratios, 3.9 comes to mind, this is because the later vehicles used larger wheels.



Disappointingly not yet a Jackass
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Saab 96 V4



Re: budget mk3 build
December 04, 2015 02:45PM
Zach, no idea if I should say anything or if you want advice cause all the negative things I see all over, but what the fuck, good intentions and all:
Anybody who i talk to knows I say PLAN. The key to happiness is planning..

Those VR6 things are a) heavier b0 heavier in the wrong place, and come with a sky high ratio final drive..
They DO make OK torque---roughly 180 ft/lbs which is GOOD when a stock 2,0 16v makes maybe 130 ft/lbs or a smidge more..
Not bad but nothing to get too excited about.

And remember in n.a. motors I stress "What da engine doan a-make in ft/lbs, the final drive does"
But sit back and think ahead (and think back 30-40 years for that matter)..





Now roll your eyes back about 20 degrees and breathe...

We're now end of ice season and you had a buncha fun (I really heart ice racing, good cheap mindless fun) and you're moving ahead but already there's a little guy on your shoulder like this:


Yeah and the one is saying "Yeah more motor, that's the ticket, Yeah just imagine" (I don't know which one is saying it honestly)
Everybody does eventually.....

and then you immediately see the problem. That VR6 is a kinda "run it like it is or pay the piper big time motor"

With a nice 2,0 16v you can easily mod it, make it funner, not break the bank AND save 70+ lbs of weight..

Then you're in the bestest class: Group 2..
And then just the normal VW problems of gear ratios and final drive at an affordable price.

Remember you were getting all reflective? You were supposed to also be thinking "did anybody ever in places where there's real established hard competition ever use the VR6 ---or really much more than a simple 2,0 16v to go like stink (willfully ignoring the last 20 years of a certain Nordic made )2300 8v car matching and beating factory prepped German 2,0 16v cars?"

And reflect how a young, but good Ozzie came to merikuh and stomped to death every single Open and Stupor Ploduction turbo AWD cars save 2or at most 3 in a little meek 1600 16v n/a car.

1600cc 16v....And you could (snap) do a nice 2000cc car for easy money (maybe only splurging for some nice forged hi comp pistons so you could do like 11.5 comp (that's not crazy considering how many VW engines are 10.8 stock).

Think about it.....and click the sound effect again



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2015 03:15AM by john vanlandingham.
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zach613
zach wittmer
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Location: parkers prairie
Join Date: 11/29/2015
Posts: 4

Rally Car:
mk3


Re: budget mk3 build
December 04, 2015 04:51PM
So more or less, build car and enjoy for now while i sorce a 16 valve setup to build and to put in it. And just for fun since a thread aways needs pictures to keep everyone intrested. who knows maybe when the time comes put the vr6 in my four door...
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DexterVW
David Baker
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95 GTI TDI


Re: budget mk3 build
December 07, 2015 08:31AM
Build the chassis and rock the vr till it blows sky high. (replace the crack pipe first)

VW's are so stupidly easy to swap motors on. Build your cage, build your suspension and GET ON STAGE. Then worry about that boat anchor of a motor. 172hp even with the horrible "for rally" gear ratio will get you down the stage and across the finish line with a HUGE smile on your face.
There is a team running a black jetta vr6 out there somewhere.. and they are having the time of their lives.

Now once you blow it up... 16V, 8V, TDI, 1.8T, 2.0T etc... they all bolt in with a little electronic wizardry for some (others are a simple ecu swap) Keep the 02a/j trans and shifter and rock on. Do be careful with higher ride heights and the vr suspension... axles don't like it.

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Dante
Allan Dantes
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87 Mazda RX7 T2


Re: budget mk3 build
December 07, 2015 10:21PM
I think you should buy a yacht with a flag saying "Chillin' the Most", and rock that bish up and down the Coast!



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DG_Rally
Dave Grenwis
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Re: budget mk3 build
December 09, 2015 09:36AM
Quote
DexterVW
Keep the 02a/j trans and shifter and rock on. Do be careful with higher ride heights and the vr suspension... axles don't like it.

Yes to the shifter and hydraulic clutch but the VR6 02a won't work in a 4 cylinder.

Good luck on the build. Like the others said look for rust everywhere. Pull the carpet and start looking, the sooner you fix it the better.



Dave Grenwis - DG Rally - www.dgrally.com
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DexterVW
David Baker
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95 GTI TDI


Re: budget mk3 build
December 09, 2015 09:42AM
Quote
DG_Rally


Yes to the shifter and hydraulic clutch but the VR6 02a won't work in a 4 cylinder.

yeah sorry should have been more specific... 4 cylinder O2a/j's
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