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Best Honda Mill?

Posted by urr 
urr
Andrew Sutherland
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urr
Best Honda Mill?
December 16, 2015 10:32AM
I’m slowly tinkering on my honda EG6 again and as we plan the skid plate it’s painfully obvious the K motor hangs lower than some nat-geo teets, making clearance a concern.

I like the 250hp it currently has but I’m not sure I want to invest in a drysump and bell housing shaving (though it may be easier than changing to new drivetrain) to get some adequate clearance. I’m not a huge hondaphile but I think some of the other motors aren’t as tall and can be comingled to make decent power.

I’m not looking to drop $10k on a new motor, but if I sold the pile of k motors and trannys I have, there’s some seed money to get something “ok”.

To the Honda boys: what would be the ideal Honda motor for rally in an EG be??
H2B
B16/18
B20Vtec
??

Andrew



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2015 10:48AM by urr.
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Snidewhips
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 16, 2015 01:14PM
b20 block is tall and 20tecs are tempermental
h22 will get you the power a d torque at the cost of a lil extra weight (not sure how h swaps handle in already understeery hondas)
vtecyo on vtec kills, make vtec power from 2 to 7 bills (you have to rhyme vtec stuff)
i use ls because bullet proof, abundant, cheap to rebuild, lots of trannys to weld diffs, cable clutch!,

plus a normal ls in an eg rips really good



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reecers
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 16, 2015 01:56PM
Quote
Snidewhips
b20 block is tall and 20tecs are tempermental
h22 will get you the power a d torque at the cost of a lil extra weight (not sure how h swaps handle in already understeery hondas)
vtecyo on vtec kills, make vtec power from 2 to 7 bills (you have to rhyme vtec stuff)
i use ls because bullet proof, abundant, cheap to rebuild, lots of trannys to weld diffs, cable clutch!,

plus a normal ls in an eg rips really good

If you want to stick with vtec b16 really does the job decently.
LS motor with a cam is probably right there

h22=heavy and more swapping stuff
b20vtec has done a billion times, but i always see people selling it shorty after putting it together.

if you are k series with that much power then a b16 probably won't get you where you want to go.
then your other options are b18c and b18c5 which are more money but will get you closer to 200whp



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Josh Wimpey
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 16, 2015 03:00PM
Why not just make a custom wet sump pan?

Shorten the sides say 20-25mm and extend the rear to make up the lost capacity. Add some trap doors and shorten the oil pick-up tube and voila.....

Here is a pick of one for a VW motor





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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2015 03:01PM by Josh Wimpey.
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urr
Andrew Sutherland
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urr
Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 16, 2015 03:53PM
Quote
Josh Wimpey
Why not just make a custom wet sump pan?

It's certainly an option. Looking at a cross section of a k series pan, it may be tough to get any real clearance gains since the pick-up sits so low.

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Josh Wimpey
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 16, 2015 04:29PM
I didn't realize they had a cast chain-drive pump hanging down so low there... Definitely harder to get more than 10mm or so out of it. But, that design means it is even more critical that you protect it....



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Snidewhips
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 16, 2015 07:21PM
if you can manipulate mantain and make it work there is nothing better than the k series honda wise. ask the ariel nomad



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Cosworth
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 18, 2015 11:11PM
I wont matter what you can do with the K20 on the pan to give it ground clearance because then the problem is the header. The lower tubes of the header are pretty much on the same plane as the bottom of the pan. And there's no more space to above the header because of the subframe.

I just took a quick pic to show you that. But even with the reduced ground clearance, its not that bad. I've seen much worse out there.
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pan.jpg
Ascona73
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 19, 2015 11:28AM
Dry sump it....clearance solved.



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Snidewhips
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 20, 2015 02:04AM
^^thisguy^^isright



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urr
Andrew Sutherland
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urr
Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 21, 2015 10:55PM
Quote
Cosworth
I wont matter what you can do with the K20 on the pan to give it ground clearance because then the problem is the header. The lower tubes of the header are pretty much on the same plane as the bottom of the pan. And there's no more space to above the header because of the subframe.

I just took a quick pic to show you that. But even with the reduced ground clearance, its not that bad. I've seen much worse out there.

Good picture...i didn't even look at other components downstream of the pan.

I was going to ask you about the Quaife sequential….on another forum, you mentioned it not being a good option for you, preferring a dog box over it. Curious why…?

As always, thanks for the input….

Andrew
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Cosworth
Paulinho Ferreira
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 22, 2015 09:37AM
Quote
urr
Quote
Cosworth
I wont matter what you can do with the K20 on the pan to give it ground clearance because then the problem is the header. The lower tubes of the header are pretty much on the same plane as the bottom of the pan. And there's no more space to above the header because of the subframe.

I just took a quick pic to show you that. But even with the reduced ground clearance, its not that bad. I've seen much worse out there.

Good picture...i didn't even look at other components downstream of the pan.

I was going to ask you about the Quaife sequential….on another forum, you mentioned it not being a good option for you, preferring a dog box over it. Curious why…?

As always, thanks for the input….

Andrew
Andrew,
I can take more pics of different angles if you want. But we only gain about an inch by changing the pan setup. After that, its the bottom of the control arm mounts and the header that becomes the lowest point.

As for the Quaife, I had tried it back when they were developing it. I had even said to Mike Quaife that it was great to get a bolt it deal for the K series, but the down sides of this Quaife are:
The ratios are too wide, more suitable for a track day car.
Its only 5 spd compared to others that are 6, and is very long. Unlike the R2's
The shifting its not very smooth, somewhat clunky and long/sloppy throw.
Quaife is terrible with having replacement parts.

If you've driving sequentials before and go into this one expecting it to be smooth no clutch box forget it. Best to just install an SQS Seq shifter.
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Sean Edwards
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Re: Best Honda Mill?
December 22, 2015 05:19PM
Honda Performance division makes a dry sump kit for the F/A K20s.
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673x313_product_F25S.jpg
urr
Andrew Sutherland
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urr
Re: Best Honda Mill?
February 22, 2016 03:50PM
I skipped the dry sump for now and had dave install a bash plate with roughly 3/8" clearance....
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Attachments:
open | download - civic skid.jpg (28.3 KB)
civic skid.jpg
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