Pete Pete Remner Infallible Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
Well look at it this way. You already are going to have to make a new firewall and trans tunnel and go with a fuel cell in the trunk. Raising the floor a bit more and going with a solid axle is not that much extra work in the meantime. And it won't suck. Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |
tbolt64 Drew Ultra Moderator Location: Roanoke, Virginia Join Date: 01/02/2016 Age: Settling Down Posts: 24 Rally Car: Seriously looking into this... |
Pete,
I raced the 2000cc "pinto" motor... The 2300 "Lima" engines (especially the destroked 2.0) aren't half the engine that the "pinto" engine is. My thinking on the use of the Subaru pieces on an escort is that the second gen. Fwd Escort already has a subframe that is similar to the Subaru with lateral links and trailing arms. I know similar does not mean the same, just like with the Pinto and Lima engines. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Here's the full run down of interchange: Pilot bearing auxiliary shaft thrust plate and its 2 screws Also used for locating cams in Limas. Sump drain screw BOTH have the exact same problems: a short block hgt meaning stock rods are short and so a poor R/S ratio.. Both have maddening importance to valve stem tip height...must be perfect of ALL valve train geometry is fuxxored. Both Pinto and Lima have disgusting horrible ports for n.a. use---which work just fine in turbo form Both have pretty easy cures for all the problems John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5361724330.html $1000 http://corpuschristi.craigslist.org/cto/5356683259.html $2800 http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/cto/5349651828.html $1800 http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/5374447919.html $2000 http://porthuron.craigslist.org/cto/5330530706.html?lang=sv $800 You'd be crazy to ignore what realy is a simple version of the Ford..simpler but in the end using a whole lotta the exact same parts...with nice simple solid axle that works just fine http://macon.craigslist.org/cto/5384091255.html $1300 https://asheville.craigslist.org/cto/5383575274.html $1500 http://nh.craigslist.org/cto/5378869510.html $900 https://ithaca.craigslist.org/cto/5358536282.html $600---runs http://newyork.craigslist.org/fct/cto/5346556590.html $900 http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/cto/5362045572.html $500 out here http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/5336541332.html $599 with manual and B23 http://cleveland.craigslist.org/cto/5342412348.html $550 http://images.craigslist.org/00j0j_fZBsFtwm2EU_600x450.jpg $950 https://wichita.craigslist.org/cto/5381600233.html $1000 obo Very easy to work on .. I'm a Saab and a Ford guy This is what I did just a couple of days ago: That's for a seller car And same time this: This is one of mine: This is the nearly drop in alternate powerplant I've been in Euro powered Fords since 1974....built hundreds..(was full time business for a couple of decades) But I have no qualms, not worries at all diving into a 240 Volvo. They are virtually the same engine layout, same bore, same stroke, same head bolt spacing...and if you mill Volvo head more than oh say 1.6--1.7mm you use the Euro 2,0 "Real Pinto" cam belt. I use the same pressure plate, same turbos, same gearbox, same LSD and same gears, same shocks, same calipers, same a lotta stuff between Xratties and Volvo... But both work superbly as we have been seeing in the last few years... Work superbly, good enough for Club 2wd wins and top 2-3 2wd cars overall For a whole lot less money to build and run than most other cars, especially considering results.. And maybe you have to search a bit, but there are plenty still lurking around Few cars are simpler to swap from automatics to manual than these 2 cars...so don't fret if a "victim" car is auto.. Richmond VA is home to one of the more alert and dedicated Volvo builders i know of. a Good guy--we work a lot together..If you go that route I'll put you in touch. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Pete Pete Remner Infallible Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
I know that they're totally different animals. Just wanted to make sure you knew that the 2.0 from the Ranger is no way nohow the Pinto engine. The thing with the rear suspension is that it is okay in a FWD but it is not really so good for putting power down in a RWD. A solid axle with proper links geometry kicks ass. The setup in the Escort and Subaru isn't really so good at putting power down, not without being "pre loaded" by the front axle shifting load back, and even then you're still not putting all of the power down through the rear wheels. Yeah, you probably could knock together something to bolt in, after all that chassis was AWD in some markets so maybe the main floorpan differences were in the tunnel and not the whole rear chassis rail setup... but if one is going to go through all that effort, why stop there? Of course the real answer is to not reinvent the wheel in the first place. Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |
NoCoast Grant Hughes Super Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Subaru RWD. Sure it can be done.
How does geometry change in the rear as you go through suspension travel in an AWD vs RWD car? What is ideal in both situations? I don't know the exact answers but I know its not the same answer. This whole idea sounds like a recipe for a piss poor handling abandoned well before its done type project. Want to rally, build or buy a rally car. Wanna build something unique, buy some Legos. Grant Hughes |
tbolt64 Drew Ultra Moderator Location: Roanoke, Virginia Join Date: 01/02/2016 Age: Settling Down Posts: 24 Rally Car: Seriously looking into this... |
Thanks for the heads up on the Volvos, John. Actually I know of a few "victim" cars available very close by.
I do have an affinity for the Fords, I must admit. Pete, I appreciate the information about the Subaru rear pieces. It hadn't occurred to me that the rear would need to be preloaded by power from the front axle. Thanks especially for advising I not "reinvent the wheel". |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Yeah? I guess you could do some mental gymnastics and reason like "Let's see...dis decades long Ford guys says Volvos are like a big MkII Ford Escort....and then Ford themselves musta like Volvo since they bought the whole shebang...so maybe I could squint and think "Yeah I'll be putting a buncha Ford stuff on it ....besides, its just a tool....I don't get picky if its a Kamasa or a Stahlwille or a Proto or a Slide-off wratchet wrench, long as it works like its spossed to.." Both are right sized, not too heavy, have VERY reliable, VERY simple engines, very good oil pumps, and can EASILY make all the power needed to win. And you only have to buy 4 of things when you want to build one... Like 4 of these Soooper Bitchin JVAB 139mm c-c rods (actually made for Euro Pinto for Appendix K FIA Classic cars) Then you get some nice flat top pistons 7mm shorter and have nice light reciprocating parts and wake the motor up.. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Pete Pete Remner Infallible Moderator Location: Cleveland, Ohio Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 2,022 |
Damn! And I thought my Audi things with their 136mm rods were short rod engines.
On the other hand I suppose I already knew this... the stock 2.3 rods are useful for "315" mini-stroker Ford 302 engines. You offset-grind the crank to a slightly longer stroke, use the 5.2" 302 rods (which are .2" LONGER than the V8 rods...) and use a certain Chevy piston. More stroke, longer rods, and lighter pistons, can't go wrong with that. Pete Remner Cleveland, Ohio 1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing) 1978 Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Uh. Details are a pain. Ford 302====5.090...and maybe 21mm wide 2.125" journal Ford 2,3====5.200 c-c and 25,4mm? wide....0.912 pressed pin...52mm journal Chev is 0.927 pin and commonly 2.1" journal Whatever. People do all kinda of strange things What I was doing with those was going from Euro Pintoid 126mm c-c rod to +13mm so piston went -13 from 41,6mm comp hgt to 28,6mm flat tops And same time I did some at 144mm for a OHC Saab up from 134mm so piston went from 40mm comp hgt down to 30...over 300g less in both cases Worked good for both..Escort guy won next time out and Saab guy was 3rd or 4th...Very happy Pintoid, Lima, Saab and Opel alll have 52mm journal and are all within 010 of same width... Make some things easier. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Even has a phone number. Imagine that? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
tdrrally edward mucklow Godlike Moderator Location: charleston,wv Join Date: 05/31/2011 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 763 Rally Car: ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Richmond VA
1985 Mercury Merkur XR4Ti - $1500 (Richmond) http://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/5376860507.html John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
tdrrally edward mucklow Godlike Moderator Location: charleston,wv Join Date: 05/31/2011 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 763 Rally Car: ford mustang LX 5.0, 1973 VW Beetle |
where do these cars rust? floors, frame rails, rear suspension mounts? I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow! first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it! |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Pinch weld at bottom of sills. Floor to sill junction.. And I don't know what "frame rails" are Some at bottom of doors---easy replacements are available for inner and outer door skins, and outer sill.. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |